Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saint David's School (New York City)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 16:24, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Saint David's School (New York City)

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Elementary schools are not ordinarily notable individually--if not, the default is usually to merge them into the school district/diocese/community. This might be an exception, as there are some clearly notable former pupils (including John F. Kennedy, Jr., though he didn't graduate), and an exceptionally good job of referencing for an article of this sort, and I am sending it here for discussion. I am unsure, personally.  DGG ( talk ) 20:07, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:50, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - If I had seen the CSD I  would have declined it  too  as the article certainly makes claims to  notability. It  has come a very  long  way  since it  was created as a tiny  stub in  2009 and many  editors have contributed to  making  it  a clean school page. The school  appears to  be far more worthy  of mention  than a great  many  primary  school articles (although  of course,  a converse WP:OTHERSTUFF rationale  is inadmissible). Most  of the  referenced sources however, appear to  be mainly  concerned with  alumni and do  not  support notability  for  the school as their personal  notability  cannot  be inherited. One of the reliable sources  that may  have more in depth  coverage is behind a pay-wall, while the other NYT article lends more weight to  arguments for notability.  My  only serious reserve is that  it  reads a tad promotional, but  this can be rectified - I  might  even have a go  at  it  myself if it  is kept. So  my  overall  opinion  is 'keep'. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:26, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll just  add that  online I've only  found one further reference: Apparently  the school  is mentioned in  Overview-Middle Schools in New York City (2010) General Books LLC ISBN-13: 9781157038597, ISBN: 115703859X, b ut  I'don't have access to  it. There may also  be other print media in libraries that  mention  the school. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:57, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * As I state below, this page is far from clean; the vast majority of the page is copyvio or unreliably sourced. I beg to differ on the notable alumni, though. The 'notability is not inherited' guideline was intended for the kids of celebs and the like. Secondary schools have a significant influence on the future lives and careers of their students so their alumni should be taken into account when assessing notability. TerriersFan (talk) 00:46, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:43, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - I started editing this page then I realised that most of it is copyvio; the lead, and the History, Curriculum, The Arts and Athletics sections are pretty much straight lifts from the school's website. The 'Controversy' section is sourced by what is certainly not a reliable source and should be better sourced or excised. If this school is kept and, with several notable alumni it possibly should be, then it needs stubbing back to the bare bones. TerriersFan (talk) 00:33, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Keep - there are some elements of WP:COPYVIO insofar as the school ethos and numbers are given. Perhaps some better research from records in the school district might improve the article. Notability is apparent in the list of alumni and reference given above. --Whiteguru (talk) 13:19, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment some elements of Copyvio? Apart from some inconsequential rewording:
 * The lead is lifted from http://www.saintdavids.org/about/
 * History from http://www.saintdavids.org/about/school_history.html
 * Curriculum from http://www.saintdavids.org/school_program/
 * The Arts from http://www.saintdavids.org/the_arts/
 * Athletics from http://www.saintdavids.org/athletics/
 * I have removed all this and rewritten the lead. TerriersFan (talk) 17:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Weak keep - assuming it can be sourced, per TerriersFan. Bearian (talk) 16:15, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Sorry, not notable. The school is not historic or a landmark, and does not appear to be notable. Google News finds lots of hits but they are trivial: numerous items mentioning that JFK Jr. was going there, but not otherwise saying anything about the school; mentions in connection with a flu epidemic; bridal notices; a sentence about the appointment of a headmaster. The only coverage that went beyond a passing mention was this in the NYT about a class project. Not enough. --MelanieN (talk) 04:48, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Correction: Could be Merged instead of deleted if we can figure out the appropriate target. The article and the school's web page don't say what educational structure it reports to - presumably a diocese or an archdiocese? --MelanieN (talk) 04:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep--Why not put up the copyvio? I mean...the controversy is at least interesting and notable because said protestor is the son of the previous principal, which is cited. I think readers wouldn't care whether the content was copied or not as long as it is informational. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.43.160.6 (talk) 17:26, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep, due mostly to the fact that several rich and famous people have sent their kids there. Yes, notability is not inherited, but those associations with the rich and famous have resulted in coverage that is not always trivial in nature. This article about "preppie killer" Robert Chambers, a St. David's alumnus, includes a fairly long discussion of his childhood, including his time at St. David's. There's also a 1996 New York magazine article that's quite critical of the school; I haven't used it in the article yet, but it could be used. I've added a few other sources to the article. --Orlady (talk) 19:16, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.