Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saint Nishan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Nishan. Deor (talk) 02:33, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Saint Nishan

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The subject of the article, a "Saint Nishan", does not exist - there has never been a person named Saint Nishan. Saint Nishan, Surp Nshan in Armenian - meaning "Holy Sign", is just a term used for an important holy relic (most often a relic of, or containing a fragment of, the True Cross), or as a name for churches that contain such an important holy relic. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:18, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  20:40, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm not sure if the Armenian Travel Bureau is a reliable source, but their english language entry for Haghpat Monastery states: "The monastery was founded by Saint Nishan (Sourb Nshan) in the 10th century during the reign of King Abas I." . This gives me pause. Do you have a reference that states no Saint Nishan existed? 24.151.10.165 (talk) 21:04, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes the church is named Surp Nshan. But the source is not usable because the text you quoted has just been copied from an old version of the Wikipedia article on Haghpat Monastery! There are no references that state a Saint Nishan existed, including no reference for the on-Wikipedia claims that one existed. The Saint Nishan content was placed into the Haghpat article by the same editor that created the Saint Nishan article. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 23:13, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Fooled once again by a quasi-official sounding name. I'd hoped for better from the Armenian Travel Bureau. 24.151.10.165 (talk) 23:33, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Two mentions of "Saint Nishan" occur in (Re)constructing Armenia in Lebanon and Syria, by Nicola Migliorino, pages 62 & 70. One is a church in Beirut, the other an Armenian Apostolic monastery.--Kansas Bear (talk) 23:51, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes there are churches named Surp Nshan, as I have already explained. What is the point of your comment? The article is about an alleged saint, not a church. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 00:15, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Turn into a disambiguation page pointing to the churches with this name, as it may be a term that people may search for. Yes, it does indeed appear that the name just means "Holy Sign". It's the same as those who believe that the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul is named after a real saint called St Sophia instead of the actual meaning of "Holy Wisdom". An easy mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless. Whether there was a real saint who just used the religious name St Nishan, as the note in the article suggests, has not been proven, but does actually seem quite unlikely and possibly even sacrilegious. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:43, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Problem with a disambiguation page would be to which church would it be directed. There are lots with that name, but not many with specific articles on Wikipedia. This might be the only one Sourb_Nshan_of_Sebastia. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 14:51, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That would be why I said turn it into a disambiguation page and not a redirect! -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:48, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I'm newish here, didn't understand the difference. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 19:39, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Armenia-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 13:43, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:54, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Redirect to disambig page Nishan, a new section that I have just created on the main disambiguation page. Having spread the inaccuracy, Wikipedia should make it easy to find the necessary refutation. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:25, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Nishan per Fayenatic. I particularly like the idea of cleaning up after our own part in turning this into a likely search term. 24.151.10.165 (talk) 17:32, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.