Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sakabato


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was merge to Rurouni Kenshin. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 22:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Sakabato

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This article seems to concern itself with a non-notable fictional object inserted as fancruft. The page contains no source citations, and seems to be extremely confused in general, even on the historical existence of the item. Ox-Puller 02:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions.   -- Neier 08:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Rurouni Kenshin. The Japanese wikipedia has an article on this, but it doesn't say much more than what has been translated already.  The Japanese wikipedia entry also has a mergeto tag suggesting the same thing, although it is being contested on the grounds that the sword makes appearances outside of that series. Neier 08:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect per Neier. Edison 20:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Overzealous and misleading cruft. The first sentence in the English article says: "A sakabatō is a real type of Japanese sword." The first sentence in the Japanese article says: "A sakabatō is a fictional sword." Need I say more? TomorrowTime 08:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Both are apparently true; not a historical sword, but a real sword available in modern times. -Amatulic 23:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason I proposed deletion is (and I'm saying this in connection to Oroshi's post as well) that fans will keep warping this entry to suit their own ideas as long as this particular weapon is mentioned in an article, unless somebody with a keen eye keeps watch and reverts every single fan entry about noble samurai who decided not to kill (huh?). See Ninjaken and Ninjato, for instance - I don't have enough knowledge to get those two in order, nor do I have the energy to fight hordes of neo-ninja with no respect for actual history. TomorrowTime 19:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect per Neier. Maikeru 05:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Rurouni Kenshin, and mention it in Katana. There are some references to the fact that this type of sword is real, if not historically, then at least currently. ( as well as several eBay auctions) -Amatulic 23:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Rurouni Kenshin, whilst making clear that it is a fictional creation. I would argue against mentioning it in Katana, as it's not a katana - any actual 'sakabatō' are just fan memorabilia. One might as well put bokken under the same heading, as it has more in common with real Japanese swords than a 'sakabatō' does: bokken are actually used in Japanese martial arts! The general consensus on Sword Forum International is that the 'sakabatō' is a fiction, and while cheap decorative replicas can be bought, they are not fully functional and could not be used in martial arts. The claim on the Japanese wiki of a pineapple being cut in half validating the blade's efficacy is laughable to anyone familiar with real test cutting.  Also, the traditional way of making katana precludes having a cutting edge on the back, as the sword bends naturally towards the blunt soft-steel side during the cooling stage of the forging process.  Oroshi 05:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I only suggested a mention in katana because I originally went there to find information about the sakabato, not knowing the name "sakabato" at the time. I am sure others will do the same. It seems to be a common enough question in other forums, that the katana article should at least mention it briefly by way of disclaimer somewhere.
 * Fascinating forum you pointed out. Reading a few pages into it, it seems that traditional forging processes (even simple things like a higher-temp quench) can be used to reverse-curve a katana blade, and some have been forged by forum participants. But the consensus is that these blades aren't historical, aren't practical for sword fighting, although some swordsmiths in Japan reasonably would have experimented with such a design before abandoning it. -Amatulic 21:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and Redirect, largely per Oroshi's reasoning, but also because doesn't appear to be referenced well enough to stand as an article in its own right. WMMartin 16:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.