Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saleem Dabbour (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Reading through the discussion, I feel there is a consensus that the article as it currently stands should be deleted. If a neutral and well sourced article can be written, no prejudice against re-creating this article as a draft and having it reviewed by an independent editor before moving it into article space. Randykitty (talk) 08:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Saleem Dabbour
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Another promotional article about a non-notable subject created xwiki by Arabic spammers who assume that en.wiki users will not read Arabic language sources, which to be fair, is basically the grounds the last AfD was kept on, so they were right. Deleted as non-notable promotion on the Arabic Wikipedia by editors who actually have the capacity to read and understand the promotion. We should delete it here as well. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Linking to google translate of the arabic deletion discussion As far as I can see it was deleted due to neutrality moreso than notability. I'll prune it, happy for anyone to revert. He was nominated for the Katara Prize for Arabic Novel, sponsored by UNESCO and one of the largest by cash value. Also enwiki can come to its own consensus, we shouldn't defer to arabic wiki. --  [E.3]  [chat2]  [me]   06:50, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment I can't find that content about the Katara Prize and so I rescind my vote to keep. I trimmed the article so it doesn't read promotional and other editors (preferably arabic speakers) should decide based on the sources :) -- [E.3]  [chat2]  [me]   07:16, 13 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Per arwiki AfD this article deleted due: (1) Non-notable per search engines results (2) There's a lot of unacceptable and repeated sources in this article (3) a lot of sources meaningless (4) One account wrote all content of this article in arwiki and enwiki, and try to update it from time to time, also his edits only in this article so considered as WP:SPA in arwiki (specially that this user created a sock on arwiki when this article nominated for deletion) (5) Finally, fake visits per undeclared bot (see here).
 * In this version (trimmed by ): ref1=ref4 (mention only the subject name) and almost other sources only mentioned his name without any information (writer Saleem Dabbour), ref17 is a link for his movie on youtube, ref23 for a site homepage, a lot of Arabic sources from alwatanvoice news and maannews (local news websites), several Arabic sources taking about his historical novel "Horoob" (ref5,6,7,27,28,29,30,31,32,33), ref49 copied from re48 and mentioned that. Finally, a lot of information can't be confirmed.
 * (P.S if you take a look on this article history you'll find a lot of single-purpose accounts, like and other mentioned above)-- Alaa   )..! 11:05, 13 August 2019 (UTC)


 * !vote changed to delete as per above -- [E.3]  [chat2]  [me]   11:33, 13 August 2019 (UTC)


 * KEEP and be rational and fair
 * If the writer isn't notable why would Al Jazeera quote him or write about his work? i.e
 * 1. https://www.aljazeera.net/news/cultureandart/2008/9/7/%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%85-%D9%83%D9%81%D9%89-%D9%8A%D8%AF%D8%B9%D9%88-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A%D9%8A%D9%86-%D9%84%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%A9-%D9%88%D8%A5%D9%86%D9%87%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%82%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%85
 * 2. https://www.aljazeera.net/news/cultureandart/2013/12/23/-%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%B1-%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%83%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A%D9%8A%D9%86
 * 3. https://www.aljazeera.net/news/cultureandart/2008/2/11/%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D8%AD%D9%84%D9%89-%D9%8A%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC-%D9%83%D8%B1%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%8B-%D8%AD%D9%82%D9%88%D9%82-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%81%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A
 * 4.https://www.aljazeera.net/news/cultureandart/2011/4/5/%D9%85%D8%AB%D9%82%D9%81%D9%88-%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86-%D9%81%D8%AC%D8%B9%D9%88%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%BA%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88
 * 5.https://www.aljazeera.net/news/arts/2019/4/27/%D8%B8%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%81-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%88%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D9%88%D8%AF%D8%A9-%D8%A8%D8%B9%D8%AF-%D8%B7%D9%88%D9%84-%D8%BA%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%A8


 * And Why would NBC interviews him, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6wPMphi180
 * And why would an American Prof. Matt Sienkiewicz write about his films in his book 'The Other Air Force: U.S. Efforts to Reshape Middle Eastern Media' and wrote many articles about his work?:https://books.google.ps/books?id=x6oxDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=Saleem+Dabbour&source=bl&ots=dBj1q2CZ2q&sig=ACfU3U33ENKqMXpi6fvfdriP6mO6EYdQXw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi56f3m4InkAhWJaFAKHVoKAGk4ChDoATABegQICBAB#v=onepage&q=Saleem%20Dabbour&f=f:also
 * Assuming all the other sources I included aren't good enough. All what I can say, There is something wrong going on! Thanks, Sam — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam646461 (talk • contribs) 10:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Sam646461 is a major contributor to the contested article and has done no other editing work in Wikipedia. -The Gnome (talk) 08:39, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per nomination and Alaa' pointers. Article created and fattened up by a variety of kamikaze accounts. -The Gnome (talk) 08:39, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * KEEP - He's regularly referred to in Matt Sienkiewicz's The Other Air Force: U.S. Efforts to Reshape Middle Eastern Media Since 9/11 . also in Narrating Conflict in the Middle East: Discourse, Image and Communications Pracices in Lebanon in Palestine edited by Dina Matar, Zahera Harb. . He also directed 2 films (or more). They're recorded in Beginning Film Studies: Second Edition by Andrew Dix.  Also his film Kaffa! (He wrote the story) won an award at the 14th Cairo Arab Media Festival See Ma'an News Agency - Article:Palestinan film wins silver at 14th Cairo Arab Media Festival. Yeah Palestine's a small country / state. Whatever it is, or however Palestine is viewed by the outside, in Palestinian terms he's notable. To me on the outside, in our terms, he appears notable. Karl Twist (talk) 09:40, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. I haven't had time to go through all the sources yet but based on what I have seen  - the book ref identified by Karl Twist and the coverage in Al-Jazeera there is clearly enough here to pass GNG.  Mccapra (talk) 16:52, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 16:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete as paid-for spam, per Alaa. Reader count padding is just another manifestation of the "buy Facebook likes" phenomenon. MER-C 15:45, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Reply to the above by MER-C. Where do you see Paid for spam? I haven't seen any! Anyway, there's notability in 3 places. He's also the writer for 5 films elcinema.com: Saleem Dabbour, and one of them Kaffa! won an award at the 14th Cairo Arab Media Festival. Karl Twist (talk) 10:05, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Reply to the above by Karl Twist. Any one can edit/create elcinema.com page, and there's a lot of spam in it. The only source in awards section is internet forum (any one can edit/create), also (Ma'an's 2009 Annual Leading Figures and Organizations poll) is online poll! Ma'an' create polls every week and any one can vote, so it's almost mean nothing and "Several attempts to hack the poll were detected". Paid for spam: this article on arwiki/enwiki created by SPAs, also fake visits per undeclared bot (see here) -- Alaa  )..! 11:26, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * What Alaa said. Arabic spammers tend to create articles on en.wiki either in addition to or after the deletion of their article on ar.wiki because the assumption is that en.wiki editors don’t speak Arabic so they’ll just see a bunch of links and assume something is notable and not want to delete it. While there are many topics from the Arabic speaking world that do need expanded coverage on en.wiki, BLPs that couldn’t even be classified as D-list celebrities do not fall into that category. TonyBallioni (talk) 11:35, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Reply to the post by علاء (Alaa) at 11:26, 23 August 2019. The article: Palestinan film wins silver at 14th Cairo Arab Media Festival at Maannews.com says the film won an award. That's an achievement! Quite a bit about Dabbour in Matt Sienkiewicz's book The Other Air Force: U.S. Efforts to Reshape Middle Eastern Media Since 9/11.  Matt Sienkiewicz of course is an associate professor of communication and international studies at Boston College. Karl Twist (talk) 11:58, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Awards section is copied from another websites. "first-ever Palestinian-made animated film for children" not mentioned on the source used, also UNICEF produced a lot of animated films. "first-ever 100% Palestinian-funded production" (source 37 + 38=websites main page, also not mentioned on source 39). I can clarify the content of all sources, and we'll find that most of the information does not exist in these sources, and some of the sources are not reliable at all, and in my opinion that mentioning the name of a person in separate news (not related to him) does not mean that the person achieves notability -- Alaa  )..! 11:52, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Reply Alaa, Stop fooling people. All the Arabic sources which talk about his work are official.just stop this farce! You know everything you claimed is UNTRUE. It was you the one who abused his authority as an Arabic editor and worked hard the delete the Arabic article by fooling some of the Arabic editors! You even blocked me so I can't talk.
 * Maan poll was made only twice. 2010 and 2011 and not weakly as you claimed. There is No paid spam as you try to make other people believe. The writer is a well known novelist and scenarist to Arabic world specially those who are interested in literature and Film making. He won a gold prize in Tunis and a silver prize in Cairo. He wrote many films, series and novels.
 * Why are you doing this? I don't care if you keep the article or you delete it, Just remember the writer is Palestinian and most of his work is about the Palestinian cause, I leave the rest for your imaginations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam646461 (talk • contribs)

I'll not respond to your personal attack but I didn't block you in arwiki, created a sock then blocked by other sysop -- Alaa )..! 12:13, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Reply you did block me! and it is not personal, I just tell the truth and you know it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam646461 (talk • contribs)
 * Your sock blocked indefinitely, and your main account blocked for 3 days (finished on 7 August 2019). (arwiki sysop) blocked you per CU results. So I didn't block you  -- Alaa   )..! 12:22, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Reply I don't even know what those terms mean. I wasn't able to log in my a count and say my opinion, so my room mate made an a count and put a comment, he was blocked too.And please notice I am not a wiki expert, I am still learning how to edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam646461 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment it seems that both myself and علاء aka Alaa have both corrected Sam646461's forgetting to sign off at the same time. I did any earlier one but didn't bother with the others as they seemed to be corrections on the post. I apologize if I didn't get it in the right order. I think I did it correctly.btw: Sam646461, After you finish what you have to say, please can you sign off with 4 or these '' Thanks Karl Twist (talk) 12:44, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Reply Thanks a lot Karl, I did not forget, I just don't know how to do it, I read your note I hope it works this time Sam646461 (talk) 12:52, 23 August 2019 (UTC) :)
 * Reply to the above by Sam64646. You're welcome. All good now. Looks fine. Karl Twist (talk) 12:56, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Also, I take a look now on this article Wikidata item (Q7403848) and I found that: special:diff/898793285 (description wrote by 176.224.210.30 on 31 March 2019) "مراوغ يحاول الشهرة عن طريق كلمات معينة في الويكبيديا" which mean "Dodger tries to fame by certain words in Wikipedia". Also, on 25 July 2019 another IP (37.42.163.184) here wrote "فيروس فلسطيني ويكبيدي" which mean "Palestinian Wikipedia virus" -- Alaa  )..! 12:59, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Reply Lol Alaa! You are funny!! I am convinced. Thanks a lot for your great efforts to show us the truth!!Sam646461 (talk) 13:11, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Also, this article created by user named "Sam Harb", and between Aug.-Oct. 2018 user "Sam646461" added more than 10K bytes. File:SaleemDabbour.jpg uploaded by user "Samiabufadi". Also, the article edited several times by user named "Ahmad Basha", and before few days "Sam646461" created a sock in arwiki named أحمد الغزاوي (Ahmad Ghazzawi). Note that all of this accounts are single-purpose accounts, that only edits (Saleem Dabbour) article -- Alaa  )..! 15:53, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment. Rather than thinking about who did what on ar.wiki I’ve looked through all the sources in the article. Clearly the article has been ref-bombed in a bid to bolster notability, and several sources are used multiple times. However:

Lede Section
 * 1 reliable
 * 2 reliable
 * 4 same ref as 1
 * 5, 6, 7 uncertain about reliability of the sources, but they appear to be republishing a press release
 * 8, 9 proper independent commentary pieces. (I’m not sure about Al Watan Voice as a source overall).
 * 10 I’m ignoring as a COI source
 * 11 definitely reliable
 * 12-15 unsure
 * 16 definitely reliable, and sufficient to support a lede

Novels Films
 * I’m not familiar with any of the sources used in this section. Some appear to be partisan, and some are YouTube videos. Nothing I’d want to rely on if I was writing an article myself. (Again I’m not sure about Al Watan Voice).
 * (Nuktet Tahawul)
 * 35 probably reliable
 * 36 reliable
 * 39 reliable, though it doesn’t support all of the content it refers to
 * 40 reliable
 * 41 probably reliable

Kaffa!, Al-Hayaa Ahla, Awards Nothing that looks solid. This doesn’t suggest the statements in the article are false, just that the films and awards may not be as notable as the article suggests if these are the only sources to support them (I haven’t looked for others).

So my view remains that while this article is over-written and needs stripping down, the subject is notable. He has been covered multiple independent reliable sources, just not as many as the article’s creator may believe. Mccapra (talk) 05:35, 24 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.