Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sameh Al Tawil


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Thank you for the multiple source assessment tables, that was quite an effort. Liz Read! Talk! 07:30, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Sameh Al Tawil

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This has got to be the most impressive example of Wikiwashing I have seen - a sleek article packed with citations, lots of detail, well formatted and generally looking just fine and dandy. Behind that excellent presentation lies a house of cards - sourced in the main to the subjects own website, with occasional incidental mentions as taking part in local/regional exhibitions with video installations, there is not one shred of notability, enduring impact, critical regard, monument, significant award or exhibition. Fails WP:ARTIST; WP:FILMMAKER. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:30, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Artists, Arts, Egypt,  and Germany. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:30, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

'''Apart from that yes, he has won multiple awards and have attended International exhibitions in germany, saudi arabia etc.. :for Eg -'''
 * Comment - I have added more than 20+ reference articles from independent sources. The irony is that the person was nominated for deletion because I added only those that was written from a neutral point of view and made sure not to write the things that  would promote himI would also like to tell this person is one of the most recognized New media artists in the middle east ..He already has a section written about him in the wikipedia - .Contemporary art in Egypt - Wikipedia i have added references from some of the most recognized references like from Al-Ahram - Wikipedia which is one of the oldest news page out there.  some eg - http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/5/25/300120/Arts--Culture/Visual-Art/Egypts-second-edition-of-Cairotronica-probes-futur.aspx,  https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/ausstellung-nach-dem-kassensturz-1.3443658, http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsAFCON/2019/93085.aspx etc
 * 01/2003(Endless journey) film “Kunst am boden” Exhibition ADBK Munich,
 * 03/2002Participation prof. Brangenberg class Drawings-exhibition, in ADBK, Munich.
 * 06/2003(Solo ll) Video, prof. Metzel class, year exhibition in ADBK, Munich,
 * 2001-2004 participating in the annual exhibitions at the fine art academy in Munich(ADBK)
 * 05/2023 Chaos ىضوف / within Nexus group exhibition in VerpachereiGö, Germany
 * 10/1999 (Bronze sculpture) Workshop and Exhibition in Goethe Institut Cairo.


 * Here are the awards he had won -


 * Nile Salon photography prize 2012
 * Youth Salon Award (1999,2000, 2004)), a Small pieces Exhibition (2002),
 * ENPI Photography 2nd Prize 2010 and a commission from the Contemporary Art
 * Museum in Munich for the SOLO project (2003),
 * Cannes Lions Silver 2021, 2 Effie Awards 2017 &
 * 2019, EME Award 2018,
 * Comprix Award 2018,
 * BestCss award,
 * AdsOfTheWorld 2020, Vuforia
 * Vision Award 2015.
 * Now, my main concern was i didn't write award since, it though it would promote him since i wanted to write it in a neutral point of view but since, it was nominated directly for deletion i will add all those things the nominator has requested Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 07:41, 3 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete Lacks significant coverage in reliable sources. I agree with the nominator that this is a misleading use of sources, using trivial mentions to make grand claims. For example, the article currently says that this person's "body of work is distinguished by its thought-provoking exploration of themes, notably freedom, religious identity, artistic identity, and human rights," which is sourced to a 3-sentence mention in an article about a group show, which mentions a single work (not a body of work), is a basic description of the work that does not describe it as anything like "thought-provoking," and makes no mention of anything like "freedom," "artistic identity," or "human rights." Elspea756 (talk) 13:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)


 * comment - Since, my fellow colleagues tells that i used only trivial mentioning for that purpose i would like to prove that the sources that i used are not just trivial sources by mentioning each project with secondary sources links - please note that these projects are the reason why i mention that the sameh al tamil way of work is to show freedom, religious identity, artistic identity, and human rights (it's the overall perspective of the projects ..i didn't mention this randomly.. I would humbly request the fellow collegues to please go through the references proverly before casting vote here -

Reliable independent sources for Projects – (2) another secondary source https://www.sammlung.pinakothek.de/en/artwork/Y0GRWlX4RX/sameh-el-tawil/solo
 * Video Installations -
 * 1.	Cupboard - https://universes.art/de/nafas/articles/2005/dar-al-hiwar
 * 2.	Visitors - AkademieGalerie 2004 - 2008 (in German). Academy of Fine Arts, Munich. 2009. p. 11. ISBN 978-3-932934-25-4.
 * 3.	A442Hz - https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsPrint/82223.aspx, Mekawei, Yara (2013). https://www.udrop.com/file/KNV1/A442Hz_-_AhhSixthFloor_Exhibition_Cairo_2013.pdf" (PDF). SIXTH FLOOR. pp. 54–55.
 * 4.	"Clockwise - https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsAFCON/2019/93085.aspx
 * 6.	Solo –(1) "LOOK AT THIS steht in Großbuchstaben auf der Zeichnung von David Shrigley, die ein schwarzes Rechteck zeigt" (PDF) (in German). 2021. p. 11. - LOOK_AT_THIS_Booklet_WEB.pdf https://www.udrop.com/KRjs/LOOK_AT_THIS_Booklet_WEB.pdf?download_token=e46b53aafb6e7de562664355562ec774a9520250ac380ac7e79dd4f30c8d3604

Art projects –
 * 7.	Slavery Document - https://universes.art/de/nafas/articles/2005/dar-al-hiwa

another secoundary reference -  "Behind the image and Beyond," (PDF). Egypt Digital art Festival. 2013.      http://teganbristow.co.za/?portfolio=amaze-johannesburg-2013
 * 8.	Vs Versa” - https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2013/05/cairo-culture-festivals-combine-art-politics.html - www.al-monitor.com. May 2, 2013. Retrieved September 29, 2023.


 * 10.	Not for sale - https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/ausstellung-nach-dem-kassensturz-1.3443658

Moving Images –

https://alarab.co.uk/%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%86%D9%8A%D9%83%D8%A7-%D9%82%D8%AF%D9%85-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%82%D8%A8%D9%84%D8%A7-%D8%AA%D9%82%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%AA%D8%B9%D8%AF%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AA
 * 11.IDEMixer - https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/5/25/300120/Arts--Culture/Visual-Art/Egypts-second-edition-of-Cairotronica-probes-futur.aspx

12.	Chaos - "Cairotronica 3rd edition at the factory and tahrir cultural center" (PDF). 2021. p. 111.

https://www.udrop.com/KNV5/chaos_-_Cairotronica_2021_Cataloge-compressed.pdf?download_token=40f43a70b71a197cfdb8ecdc8d542bde4996c449e3aad1cebfeca09eb77b7757

Please go through the secondary links and then cast your vote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syed Sadique Hussain (talk • contribs) 18:51, 3 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete - WP:PROMO I am not finding any reliable sources for the biographical information presented. I can't find significant coverage or evidence that he is any collections. The article relies heavily on the artist's website. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:59, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Elspea756, @Alexandermcnabb and @WomenArtistUpdates Dear Colleagues, i do admit that he doesn't have alot of coverage through news articles publication and other way of references about his life.in general but he does have coverage about his each of his work he published. But saying that he doesn't have any other significant coverage other than his official website is wrong without proper prior research.
 * To show evidence here it is a peer-reviewed publication- LandEscape Art Review - December 2013 - land.escape Flip PDF | AnyFlip
 * In this Peer-reviewed publication Sameh Al Tawil has a coverage from page number 50 - 59. A total of 9 page worth of coverage ....it talk about his life, career and work. and explain in detail about his projects.
 * for your kind information "Landescape Art Review" meets the criteria and is considered a reputable source within the field of art and art criticism, Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 15:50, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment The creator of this article says just above that a self-written bio and interview in LandEscape Art Review is the absolute best source there is for this article. This unreliable primary (not reliable secondary) source describes themself as for "the advertising of works of art" and "selected works will be asked for a symbolic 15€ contribution." THIS IS PAID PROMOTION, not significant coverage in a reliable secondary source. DO NOT TAG ME IN ANOTHER RESPONSE AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO WASTE MY TIME. Thank you. Elspea756 (talk) 16:26, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, @Elspea756 I will not tag you anymore and as a matter of fact i only tag you once.The other was a reply to your comment. I would appreciate if you can watch your tone and not be rude ..I would suggest you to please use a little professional tone. I am not here to waste your time, ok?  This is an Interview where the artist is explaining about his work and what does his art/video installations speak of, and this is not the best source in this particular article ..they are a lot of different secondary source as well. with a total of 10+ different source for different project mentioned in the article. Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 06:52, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: A source analysis would be helpful here. But please, no more rebuttals. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:34, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * comment - It is also clearly mentioned that if the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. - WP:BASIC and WP:NBASIC .. Also the person has won multiple awards and has been part of multiple exhibitions see the listed exhibition in the article and the award he won in the above discussion section. Most of the work the artist has done is his original work. Also i would like to mention that with regards to artist there is no dedicated page which give the criteria in detail (since it is failed proposal) as of now only a small paragraph that gives detail about the notability of the artist.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(artists)_(failed_proposal)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syed Sadique Hussain (talk • contribs) 09:23, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Syed Sadique Hussain please be aware of WP:BLUDGEON and turn down the bold. You've made your case, you do not need to refute everyone else's opinions. Star   Mississippi  13:00, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Star Mississippi Sure, I was giving my point with the guidelines but i will backout now. I have made my point and had spoken whatever need to be. Thank you for reminding me of that :-) Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 13:11, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Source assessment: Here are the first 10 out of 35 sources, in a source assessment table as requested by Liz. Elspea756 (talk) 14:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That was an amazing amount of work to go to - thank you for your diligence! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:26, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * More source assessment: Here are sources 11 through 20 out of now 39 (4 more of these types of sources have been added since the last previous source assessment table). Elspea756 (talk) 17:28, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Even more source assessment: Here are sources 21 through 30 out of 39 sources. Elspea756 (talk) 17:28, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Even more source assessment yet: Here are sources 31 through 38 out of 38 sources. (A 39th source was removed by the article's creator.) Elspea756 (talk) 18:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: Based on the THREE source analysis tables, there is nothing remotely notable about this individual. PROMO. I can't find anything about his film work, the name is rather common so you get hits on anything and everything. Oaktree b (talk) 20:00, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.