Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samuel Mehr (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Delete. Jayron32. talk . contribs 04:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Samuel Mehr
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Non-notable, delete. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 17:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC) this page created in error. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 18:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 18:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to contest the deletion of this page, please hold off on deletion for a day so I have time to contest.Spamandeggs (talk) 18:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Notability. Appears to be a student musician who has one a couple of high school competitions and organized a charity fundraiser. 1st reference is to the fundraiser 2nd reference is to a bands own page that does not list Mehr 3rd reference is again to a bands own page - one subpage does mention him 4th reference does not mention him 5th reference is for a high school competition. I therefore conclude that he does not pass notability under WP:MUSICBIO noq (talk) 19:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Delete This appears to me to be "Unambiguous advertising or promotion". Spamandeggs is the article's primary author and wishes to contest. I see no harm in that, but I still doubt that this article will survive. rb000 (talk) 19:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

please ignore duplicate of original nomination - trying to restore notice to the article page which seems to have disappeared from the original article history. noq (talk) 19:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Copied from 3rd nom that was made in error. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 19:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete INsufficient notability to meet guidelines. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:30, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I am contesting the deletion of this page for the following reasons:


 * Under WP:MUSICBIO, section 1, number 6, notability is defined as "Is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles, or an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians." Samuel Mehr is cited as having performed in five notable ensembles (though not all are completely cited - I have printed evidence of these but none yet on the web).


 * Under WP:MUSICBIO, section 1, number 9, notability is defined as "Has won or placed in a major music competition." Samuel Mehr is cited has having won four major competitions: twice in the Down Beat Student Music Awards and twice in the Essentially Ellington High School Jazz Band Competition and Festival.


 * Samuel Mehr is cited as the creator of the LHS Music Endowment, described in FOLMADS, Inc.


 * Samuel Mehr is notable for his roles in fundraising for Toscanini's as cited in NYT and Boston Globe, as well as for his position as an ice cream maker (also cited).


 * Given the expanded information and notability derived from several sources - an individual musician, two single events related to fundraising, and a leadership position in a notable restaurant, this page should not be deleted.Spamandeggs (talk) 23:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * which two or more notable ensembles?
 * Are high school competitions major music competitions?
 * He did a high school fundraiser?
 * He raised money for an ice cream parlour that didn't pay its taxes?
 * I still can't see a reason why he should be included in an encyclopedia. noq (talk) 00:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Eastman Wind Ensemble should be enough (they have recorded with Wynton Marsalis and have many recordings on major labels including Sony and Phillips - google it); Beantown Swing Orchestra performed on a major hollywood film, My Best Friend's girl (see http://beantownswing.com)
 * Essentially Ellington is hosted by Jazz at Lincoln Center and gets widespread media coverage. Downbeat is the top jazz media source in the country.  Yes, both of these are major competitions
 * This fundraiser is notable because it is an endowment in a public school, which is a unique way of raising money for a music department. It's not a bake sale.
 * Apparently this was notable enough for the New York Times food section.


 * I'm no admin but I think this is significant information and meets Wikipedia:Notability standards. It could use better citations, but there's a template for that.Spamandeggs (talk) 00:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there any more activity on this discussion? I'm not sure what happens next - Noq, do you have further discussion?  If not should I remove the deletion tag? thanksSpamandeggs (talk) 00:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * After 7 days, this discussion will be looked at by an uninvolved administrator who will decide on the consensus whether to keep or delete the article. The process is described at Articles for deletion noq (talk) 10:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I have reviewed the discussion and my earlier conclusion remains the same. I don't see anything to indicate notability sufficient to meet our guidelines. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:51, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If we just consider the musical aspects of the subject under WP:MUSICBIO, I think it's clearly notable:
 * Under WP:MUSICBIO, it is stated that "a member of two or more independently notable ensembles" is considered notable. Mehr is a member of (1)Eastman Wind Ensemble, which must be independently notable because it has its own wiki, (2) Beantown Swing Orchestra, which does not have its own wiki, but is independently notable under WP:MUSICBIO part 10, having performed in the movie 'My Best Friend's Girl'  and (3) Eastman New Jazz Ensemble, which is independently notable under WP:MUSICBIO part 9 for their 2009 Downbeat award.  Shouldn't these three ensembles be enough for notability?Spamandeggs (talk) 03:09, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If my previous post showing notability is incorrect, can an administrator explain what I've misunderstood? did I miss a guideline?Spamandeggs (talk) 19:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Notes

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 23:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete Not every member of an ensemble/concert group is inherently notable - as with any other article's subject they have to have significant, non-trivial, third party coverage as per WP:MUSICBIO. This coverage has to be about Samuel Mehr, not about any groups he was in. If he was notable enough, this coverage, whether on the web, in newspapers, or whatever, would exist. Thats abpout all there is to it - the guy's not notable enough, the article should be deleted. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 11:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep re:Dylanfromthenorth, at WP:MUSICBIO, the guidelines specifically state that one of the criteria must be met -- that one criterion is that the musician is a member of two or more ensembles (item #6). This seems to be at odds with your definition of notability as 'not every member of a notable group is inherently notable.'  That is a different discussion, though - as far as I can tell, this fits within Wiki guidelines.Spamandeggs (talk) 01:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - Musicbio criteria 6 is the only thing resembling a claim to notability, and the claim that he is a member of these orchestras is not verified by any 3rd party sources. Even if it was, I don't think the guideline should apply to members of orchestras as being part of a 4 person band and a 20 person orchestra aren't really the same thing.  (Although I do agree that Beantown Swing Orchestra is notable despite the lack of page.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.