Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sanctum Sanctorum


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Leans keep per bd2412's sources. v/r - TP 21:33, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Sanctum Sanctorum

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This does not establish notability independent of Marvel Comics through the inclusion of real world information from reliable, third party sources. Most of the information is made up of plot details better suited to Wikia. There is no current assertion for future improvement of the article, so extended coverage is unnecessary. TTN (talk) 17:46, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. A quick search finds lots of Google Books references from independent sources, indicating notability. I have added a few, just as quick examples. bd2412  T 18:05, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there anything more significant? The first one is more related to the tone of the comics than the location. The second really doesn't add anything besides a filler reference, so I don't really even see the point in adding it. TTN (talk) 18:28, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * There are at least a few dozen references in books alone. I have no doubt that these add up to significance. bd2412  T 18:42, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you point one out? Between Google and Amazon there seem to be two mentions in Marvel Comics in the 1970s. I'm fine withdrawing if the topic is actually notable, but I'm not seeing anything major relating to its overall development or any significance beyond it being mentioned because Doctor Strange is the actual notable topic. TTN (talk) 18:50, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I searched for "Sanctum Sanctorum" "Doctor Strange" and got dozens of hits, and searched for "Sanctum Sanctorum" "Dr. Strange" and got dozens more (not all the same sources). Searching without the name of the character yields a large number of false positives. bd2412  T 19:06, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm still not seeing anything different than searching it with "Marvel." There's the minor thing about the address and that seems to be about it. It's mentioned a bunch of times, but that's only within the context of the fact that the character lives there. Something like the Fortress of Solitude that can be considered iconic and independent of the character can probably be developed, but those really aren't jumping out as containing anything relevant to it beyond its direct relation to the character. TTN (talk) 19:15, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know that "iconic" or "independent of the character" matter in an AfD discussion, so long as the sources exist. bd2412  T 19:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That was an ending statement meant to go with the idea that there are no sources to establish it as an independent topic. Two sources provide minor real world information that doesn't really do anything for the topic, and I'm not seeing anything else beyond minor mentions in plot summaries from those search entries. TTN (talk) 19:36, 7 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep per BD2412. BOZ (talk) 18:45, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge into Features of the Marvel Universe. I'm not convinced the Google Books results conclusively establish notability.  Like TTN, I think that something like Superman's Fortress of Solitude or Batman's Batcave better demonstrate the notability of an encyclopedia article.  There's little to say about the Sanctum Sanctorum except that Doctor Strange lives there.  Independent sources are rare, and they seem to mostly collect in-universe details, such as what mystical tomes Doctor Strange collects and what spells he's cast on it.  Something like the Fortress of Solitude gets countless hits, from science journals using it to discuss Antarctica to magazines reviewing fine art based on it.  There are scholarly works analyzing it.  I just don't see what we can say about this topic that can't be covered by a few sentences or a brief paragraph in Features.  If people really want detailed information about what mystical tomes are stored there, they can always go to Wikia. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:20, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 11:30, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 11:30, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.