Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Ann Cripps


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Both sides in the debate have valid points and concerns, but ultimately, there's no consensus here at this time. (Non-administrator closure) NorthAmerica1000 09:30, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Sarah Ann Cripps

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The subject was an accommodation-house keeper, shopkeeper, postmistress and midwife. So she is notable because........???? Source gives no further clues. Emeraude (talk) 16:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC) oops, mis-signed the aboveTheLongTone (talk) 22:42, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Having an entry in a country's dictionary of national biography is usually accepted as proof of notability for Wikipedia purposes. To quote the NZDNB, "Through all this work she made an essential contribution to the stability of an isolated community".17:11, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete The NZDB includes examples of ordinary people who were early settlers with no actual claim to any notability. This has been covered before (but I can't find the discussion). I believe such cases as this were deemed to be non-notable but stand to be corrected. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 04:16, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I saw a similar case where the AfD resulted in do decision, but can't find it now. However, what you say is certainly the case in this example. It seems there was an effort by the article's creator in 2012 to include every entry in the NZDB in Wikipedia; several I have come across in the last few days would not, on first glance, seem to scrape up the general level of notability required for Wikipedia (see, for example, Mary Anne Reidy, Susanna Hanan, Caroline Freeman, Joseph Frear (builder))
 * Comment Mary Anne Reidy got an MBE for her contributions as a nurse, has had a room at an RSA named for her, and a book was dedicated to her. Emeraude, as nominator of this AfD, you have either just demonstrated that you do not appear to understand the concept of Notability (people), or you don't bother looking at the sources before you make those statements. And don't forget to sign your posts, please.  Schwede 66  19:46, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Commemt Mea culpa, I forgot to sign myself. Big deal. But this is not about Reidy. I just mentioned her as an example. Regardless, Reidy is borderline notable evne with what you have just mentioned; it is detail which is not in the article and, at this stage, amount to OR. Emeraude (talk) 22:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment If you regard reading the reference given in the article as original research, may I respectfully suggest that you don't put up further articles for deletion until you have become more familiar with Wikipedia policies and practices?  Schwede 66  22:27, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep, as Cripps was included in the DNZB because she was notable, rather than as an example of a particular class or trade as referred to by DerbyCountyinNZ. I have expanded her bio to make this entry more useful to readers of Wikipedia.  Schwede 66  19:34, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: as creator of these stubs, I'm not going to !vote, but would have had the article speedied if I thought the subject non-notable (one or two were speedied by myself shortly after creation, usually articles about indivdiuals who were part of a group / partnership). The closest I'm aware of that any of them have come to being deleted at AfD is Draft:Caroline Harriet Abraham. Stuartyeates (talk) 21:29, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * You would have speedied articles that you created??? Are you sure?? Emeraude (talk) 22:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have requested articles that I've created be speedied. I'm sure someone more skilled in qurying the logs than I can find them. Part of the whole batch creation thing is accepting and removing errors promptly. See also the extensive consultation about this at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_New_Zealand/. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment there was a similar discussion about Ann Lovell which resulted in the article being kept -no concensus. I think if she made into NZDB then there is a reasonable level of notability in the NZ context. NealeFamily (talk) 05:41, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

But Wikipedia is NOT a New Zealand encyclopaedia. As for Ann Lovell, reading the article, what makes her notable beyond being with her husband who does not have an article? That her "forth" child was the first "European" born in the area? His child too. And the notability surely is for the child! The question has been raised before: how reliable is NZDB as a marker of general notability fro Wikipedia? Emeraude (talk) 20:22, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep Since the article has been expanded beyond all recognition since I recreated it, I feel I can now !vote. There are now multiple independent reliable third party sources (Petticoat Pioneers and DNZB) and I'm certatin there will be much more contemporary coverage once papers past gets move complete. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:21, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.