Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Goodhart


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 05:00, 5 September 2019 (UTC) Rationale added after since the close was questioned on my talk page: I re-evaluated this close and I'm still confident in it. DGG quite rightly pointed out that the sources posted were mainly gossip sites and/or trivial mentions. Even the best of them, the BBC and Cosmo articles, are basically a bunch of quotes/statements from the subject about another topic (mental health & reality TV) - they aren't really about her personally. The MTV article is substantial, but not independent, considering Geordie Shore is an MTV production. Ultimately I don't think there's enough to substantiate an article. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 05:58, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Sarah Goodhart

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Fails notability reasons with only two minor roles in two reality television shows. Jamesbuc (talk) 17:50, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.   OxonAlex    - talk  17:53, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.   OxonAlex    - talk  17:53, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.   OxonAlex    - talk  17:53, 19 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment I Found her in quite a few sources. Many are gossip pages, and some are related to a suicide epidemic among reality actors. The Sun The Daily Mail, BBC, Chronicle Live, Another Daily mail, The Florida Post, Cosmopolitan Magazine, OK Magazine. Wm335td (talk) 21:30, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Meets WP:BASIC and WP:ENT #1: Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions. They're not good TV shows, but they have millions of viewers and get an enormous amount of press coverage. If there was just one show, a redirect would be suitable. Boleyn (talk) 19:37, 21 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete The references referred to are classic examples of mere mentions. None are significantly abouth her.  DGG ( talk ) 00:53, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment, on the whole those in reliable sources are not significantly about her (different if you look at the tabloid press). However, I think it's enough to pass WP:BASIC, especially with BBC and FLorida Post now added. There are also WP:ATDs, although as she was a part of two notable shows, it would be unclear which one she would be redirected to, as neither would show a complete picture. Boleyn (talk) 19:51, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment I think it is worth noting that many other people who have appeared on reality shows have appeared on others, a good example being contestants on MTV's 'The Challenge'. I wouldn't think multiple appearances on television would count as notable at this stage unless they were the focus of a large event that happened outside of the show or was notable for winning competitive shows. I do feel there are quite a few stub articles around Wikipedia currently for these sort of tv appearances with very little outside of gossip magazine information. Jamesbuc (talk) 10:09, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , maybe you think that shouldn't be the guideline, but it is, and by the guidelines she meets WP:ENT #1. Start a discussion about changing the guidelines if you think appropriate. These are two very well-known shows, not similar to The Challenge. And why are you not proposing WP:ATDs? Boleyn (talk) 11:02, 31 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete - does not meet WP:ANYBIO which requires "a well-known and significant award or honor" and/or "made a widely recognized contribution" - does not meet WP:NACTOR which requires "significant roles" (parts in two minor reality shows are not that significant) - does not meet WP:BASIC which requires "significant coverage"; of the sources provided, the Newcastle Chronicle, Capital FM, MTV, and OK-TV mentions are all run-of-the-mill press-release style promos of upcoming shows (WP:MILL) - the BBC article gives her coverage, but she is not the main subject of the article and The Florida Post gives a mere one-line mention - not enough for notability, therefore, delete - Epinoia (talk) 21:14, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , no one has suggested she meets WP:ANYBIO. She meets WP:BASIC/WP:GNG - a small amount of international coverage, coverage in multiple national publications and the reality shows are very well-known, not minor. I'm also confused as to why you are voting delete rather than an WP:ATD. Boleyn (talk) 11:02, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep There is plenty of coverage, which provides more information about her. Most of the coverage is in the tabloid press, but The Sun, Metro, Evening Chronicle, MTV (UK and Ireland) are not banned as sources. As for "they're not about her", "From beach to Toon Who is Sarah Goodhart? Geordie Shore new girl and former Ex on the Beach star – all you need to know"  has where she's from, where she's studied, what her job is, how old she is. The Cosmopolitan article  is "What happens to reality TV stars when the cameras stop rolling?", so it's not only about her, but has 4 substantial paras about her. The MTV article  is very similar to the Sun article, but has some slightly different info (a different job). WP:BASIC actually doesn't require "significant coverage", it says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability." It does also say "trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability", but these are not trivial in the sense of passing mentions. I think it's also arguable that she meets WP:ENTERTAINER, having had roles in 8 episodes of one show and 12 episodes of another. I'm not into reality shows myself, but if someone has been in two, in all or most episodes, and has coverage as a result (before, during and after), then they meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. RebeccaGreen (talk) 08:16, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   11:57, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment - just a note on tabloid sourcing, WP:BLPSOURCES says, "material should not be added to an article when the only sourcing is tabloid journalism. When material is both verifiable and noteworthy, it will have appeared in more reliable sources" - at this point I don't think there is enough substantial coverage outside of tabloids to establish notability - Epinoia (talk) 16:30, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The only sources are not tabloids - Metro and Evening Chronicle, for instance, are not tabloids like The Sun or the Mail. Boleyn (talk) 11:02, 31 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Trivial mentions in press releases do not notability show. Rockphed (talk) 18:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * , why do you feel she doesn't meet WP:ENT #1? Boleyn (talk) 20:00, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Without doing a lot more digging into the two shows than I am willing to do right now, I can't say that she doesn't. I could have sworn there was something in WP:ENT about contestants in reality TV shows, but the word "reality" does not appear on that page.  How major was her role in Ex on the beach?  That article is in execrable shape and doesn't even include an explanation of the basic format, so I can't tell if being someone's ex on the show is a significant role.  Looking at the references in that article, I'm not convinced the show is notable since almost all of them are MTV sites (and thus probably press releases). Rockphed (talk) 11:43, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. I think she's just about passing BASIC. Szzuk (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.