Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Marie Johnson (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep Samir 03:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Sarah Marie Johnson
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )


 * Added Murder of Diane and Alan Scott Johnson here since it was moved and redirected.Theworm777 (talk) 00:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

As tragic as this family story might be, there is no indication that this person is of encyclopaedic note. Fails WP:PERP in that the victim was not notable, and that the motivation for the crime or the execution of the crime was not unusual. Mt king  (edits)  21:46, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. BabbaQ (talk) 23:51, 25 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - per WP:GNG and WP:CRIME. Has appeared also in numerous tv crime style shows. --BabbaQ (talk) 23:41, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Also plenty of good sourcing as established by the previous AfD that was held not long ago might I add.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:43, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

This is from WP:CRIME ===Crime victims and perpetrators===

A person who is notable only for being the victim of or committing a crime or crimes should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there are any existing articles that do or could incorporate the available encyclopaedic material relating to that person. Where there is such an existing article, it may be appropriate to create a sub-article, but only if this is necessitated by considerations of article size. Where there are no appropriate existing articles, the criminal or victim in question should be the subject of a Wikipedia article only if one of the following applies:

For victims The victim, consistent with WP:BLP1E, had a large role within a well-documented historic event. The historic significance is indicated by persistent coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources that devote significant attention to the individual's role. Example: Matthew Shepard.
 * Note: Be cognizant of issues of weight (i.e., avoid creation of unnecessary pseudo-biographies, especially of living people).

For perpetrators


 * 1) 1.The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities.
 * 2) 2.The motivation for the crime or the execution of the crime is unusual—or has otherwise been considered noteworthy—such that it is a well-documented historic event. #3.Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role. Example: Seung-Hui Cho.
 * Note: A living person accused of a crime is not guilty unless and until this is decided by a court of law. Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured.


 * Delete or Merge per all of these WP:1E, WP:PSEUDO, WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE and WP:BLP1E it should not have its own article. Same as the guide for crime perpetrators above says. By all theses guidelines it should be deleted or merged into Parricide both of them are stubs. This would not be in a set of encyclopedias and is not encyclopedic content on its own. Theworm777 (talk) 05:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:32, 27 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Move. This article isn't about SMJ, but rather the murder. So it should be at Murder of Diane and Alan Scott Johnson - where, in fact, it was, until it was moved in late December by User:RRRRRYYYYYAAAAANNNNN (I had to copy and paste to make sure I got the number of each letter right). The person isn't worthy of the article, since it's just one event, but the murder does seem to be. --GRuban (talk) 15:12, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete – I agree with the nominator, that this subject is not encyclopedically notable and generally fails WP:PERP. I also agree with Worm that WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE and WP:BLP1E are huge, glaring problems. So is WP:BLPCRIME, on which I reach the opposite conclusion that Babba apparently reaches: there's nothing previously notable about those involved, the murder was in fact not unusual in and of itself, and the entire 1E is of extremely low historical significance. The event did bring some coverage simply because it was a parricide (notice the quality of coverage generally: 5 pages toward the end of a 286 page book, in a short story format; crap true crime TV shows; and a smattering of news coverage). This is more properly commented on, but certainly not so much as merged into, parricide. This name space should not be simply redirected. JFHJr (㊟) 21:39, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Those "crap shows" that you are referring to are rating hits on their respective channels. It does actually pass WP:GNG, and has been covered by numerous crime shows over the years per article. --BabbaQ (talk) 23:15, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Notice:Article name has been changed to the notable Murder of Diane and Alan Scott Johnson.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:13, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment – You've got exactly one !vote to cast; which one will it be? Feel free to strike this comment after you strike one of your two votes. Cheers. JFHJr (㊟) 23:16, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It isnt a vote it is a notice that the name of the article has been changed. Have made it more clear. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Awesome. JFHJr (㊟) 23:32, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep, reluctantly, with the new name. I nominated the article the first time and since then the references have improved sufficiently to pass WP:GNG. Pburka (talk) 00:34, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep Seems to pass WP:GNG now, and the "Murder of..." is a more appropriate title for the article rather than using the name of the perpetrator. Paul MacDermott (talk) 11:37, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep due to new title. Amount of coverage long after the event shows clear notability.--Shakehandsman (talk) 20:46, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep ; a sufficiently notable murder. I note that the coverage by crime shows is not quite as reliable as the coverage of news sources, and I am reluctant to use them when there has not been a conviction, but there has been here, so it's adequate for the purpose.  DGG ( talk ) 07:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.