Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Marinda Bates Pratt


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  Sandstein  17:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Sarah Marinda Bates Pratt

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This article does not meet the test of Notability (people) which clearly states: ''person A has a relationship with well-known person B is not a reason for a standalone article on A (unless significant coverage can be found on A); see Relationships do not confer notability.. However, person A may be included in the related article on B. In this case, A is Sarah Pratt, famous only for having been allegedly approached to be a plural wife'' by notable person B, Joseph Smith, Jr.. She was married to Orson Pratt, but this also does not grant notability for a standalone article. Sarah Pratt may or may not have had a sexual relationship with John C. Bennett, but again this does not qualify for a standalone article. Sarah Pratt has not received a notable award or honor, nor has been often nominated for them. Pratt has also not made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field. Although it has been mentioned that Pratt was a founder of Utah's Anti Polygamy Society, there does not appear to be much historical data on the group, either in mainstream American, Utah or Mormon history. One source does not mention Pratt whatsoever as a creator of the group, and that same source documents that the group went national two years after the founding, and published for four years, though no mention of Pratt. Again, the information on both Pratt and group is so scarce, it does not appear to support a standalone article. Best, A Sniper (talk) 04:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This suggestion to delete the article about the notable Mormon critic of plural marriage, Sarah M. Pratt, has no merit. It is yet another attempt at Wikilawyering to delete or suppress verifiable facts based on reliable sources.  See Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-07-07 Children of Joseph Smith, Jr.. Écrasez l&#39;infâme (talk) 20:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Notable Mormon critic of plural marriage? Because this woman was interviewed on the subject in 1885, and has been mentioned in several books on the subject in the last twenty years, she is a notable critic? This person still does not satisfy the Wikipedia guidelines for a standalone article. Anyone that looks into this matter can see that you re-created the article as a forum for your fringe views. A Sniper (talk) 20:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Seems well cited, and of historical significance.  LotLE × talk  22:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * KEEP per LotLE×  Duke53  | Talk  05:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. There is sufficient treatment of her story in the historical literature to deem her notable.  But care needs to be taken that the article becomes a biography, not a coatrack for diatribes for/against Mormonism though.  The article as it currently stands says a lot about what Joseph Smith and John C. Bennett were accused of doing, but doesn't say much about Pratt's life, unlike the Van Wagoner source it's supposed to rely on.  The lede is also distorted, giving first mention to the issue of Joseph Smith's polygamy even before saying who she was actually married to or what the major themes of her life were.  I hope neutral outside parties will help keep an eye on this article for the sake of WP:NPOV. alanyst /talk/ 06:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete for the reasons I have mentioned above: a lack of any sort of notability other than her relationships to notable men, and a possible involvement in a short-lived, non-notable organization. A Sniper (talk) 06:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep. The nomination is not consistent with Wikipedia's basic criterion for notability. A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject.  It is not necessary to read or quote things further down the notability guideline page to conclude she is notable. Wikipedia "notablility" need not coincide with an editor's individual concept of notability.  There is substantial coverage from high quality sources; there really isn't much else left to say.  A glance at the references of this well referenced article shows a 30 page paper in an academic journal on her.  And to contribute something, I mention this book, which seems to consider her one of 4 notable heroes of the 13 mavericks it covers..  This fellow did scarcely anything known or knowable.  But we have an article on him because he's been the subject of scholarly research.  If the rest of the world thinks someone or something is notable, we do too.John Z (talk) 08:36, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Glides past WP:N concerns. The existence of the article itself doesn't lend undue weight (imo) a view in any way that couldn't be corrected by editing.  Content is verifiable.  Seems ok to me. Protonk (talk) 09:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Sarah Pratt was:
 * One of the first outspoken critics of plural marriage
 * A declared plural wife of Joseph Smith, Jr.
 * First wife of Mormon Apostle and polygamist Orson Pratt and central to his excommunication from the Mormon church
 * One of the founders of the Anti-Polygamy Society in Salt Lake City
 * A key eyewitness to the historical events in Nauvoo, Illinois in the early 1840s
 * Quoted and cited extensively in numerous reliable sources on all these subjects
 * All these assertions are cited extensively to reliable sources and hyperlinks in her article. The claims by A Sniper—Notability (people), WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE, WP:NPOV, and perhaps more yet to come—are not backed up by any citations to verifiable facts and rather represent yet another attempt at Wikilawyering to delete or suppress verifiable facts based on reliable sources of this historical subject. See Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-07-07 Children of Joseph Smith, Jr.. Écrasez l&#39;infâme (talk) 15:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep, she was notable and there is signifigant length to the aticle to justify keeping it. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 18:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.