Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarvesh Asthana


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  —&#8288;Scotty Wong &#8288;— 05:07, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Sarvesh Asthana

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Non-notable poet and writer. Refs are blogs and annoucement. No reviews of work. Rests on Yash Bharti award which had 73 awardees and huge number of categories.  scope_creep Talk  09:27, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 10:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 10:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 10:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep: The subject is known stage or spoken poet, who has performed India and abroad, and appeared on various TV shows to perform poetry. The poet has also authored more than 10 books, all of them are in Hindi. I have cited whatever I could found on Google. He has been recipient of UP State's highest civilian honor, Yash Bharati and Uttar Pradesh government's Sohan Lal Dwivedi Award and others. Most of the references cited in the page are well known Hindi newspapers such as Dainik Jagran, Patrika, Amar Ujala, Hindustan (newspaper), Navbharat Times, and a few are English news publications like Hindustan Times. They are NOT blogs. The topic meets Wikipedia's Notability guidelines, hence I vote to keep the page.--Ajinkyasingh (talk) 15:51, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep An obviously notable poet and author. And the AfD saying "Refs are blogs and annoucement," that is absolutely wrong. This article has plenty of reliable sources to prove notability, including sources such as the Navbharat Times and the Hindustan Times, two of the largest and best-known papers in India.--SouthernNights (talk) 20:10, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The first Navbharat Times is about the father, not the son, and in its 20 lines, hardly in-depth. The second Navbharat Times is an annoucement, the third is about some foundation, not the subject. The Hindustan Times is about an award, that doesn't have any article on Wikipedia. None of them are in-depth. You haven't looked at them have you.   scope_creep Talk  20:35, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Where is the reviews of the poetry?   scope_creep Talk  20:39, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  12:49, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment It has been two weeks since the Afd was posted and no offer of any reviews of the mans work to show that he is notable. Where is the reviews that satisfy WP:POET. Two reviews in a notable journal, will define him as a poet, otherwise he is a storyteller, of which there is hundreds in India. The Hindustan Times, a great paper, is a passing mention. Quantity does not quality. Reviews count.    scope_creep Talk  11:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. Given that the nominator has mislabeled non-blog sources as blogs and misidentified the nature and content of other sources, it’s clear that a fair, accurate, and balanced source analysis was not done. As such, I am not seeing a strong argument for deletion based in a non-biased and factually accurate assessment.4meter4 (talk) 00:14, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * If you keep making untrue statements, I will take you to Ani. It is a personal attack. This is the 2nd time I've had to give you a warning. The article has been updated before you posted and the blogs have been removed. Where is the reviews of the mans work, or a reference to prove he won the award.    scope_creep Talk  13:36, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ANi, Really? It was an honest error on my part if that’s the case. I wasn’t being untruthful, but calling out what I believed to be true at the time. I’ll note that Southern Nights called you out for the same thing above, and that comment colored my view when looking at the article originally. I didn’t think to look at older versions of the article, so apologies if you were addressing issues that were already remedied. I do make mistakes from time to time.
 * Regardless, I stand by what I said in terms of the need for a better more detailed source analysis to prove that deletion is the best choice. For example, all of the award statements are followed by inline citations. Are you claiming these sources don’t verify the content? I don’t read Hindi, do you? You are asking for evidence, but to all appearances the evidence is there in presumably the foreign language refs cited. If you are going to claim the sources don’t verify the content, do us a favor and make a source analysis chart where the issues can clearly be seen and talked about. Otherwise I’m going to assume good faith on the foreign language content I can’t read. The ball is in your court. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:20, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I can't see an obvious consensus, more input is needed

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  20:37, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment That is cool. It is very easy to vote keep on these Afd's. The system is naturally skewed towards keeping the article and sources analysis is great in principle, but with deletion review, it is getting and getting harder and harder to remove the junk. This is a junk article. Any author needs reviews. Where are they? Looking at the references for a BLP.
 * Ref 1 in weekleyvoice.com that indicate he attended the Comedy Poetry Festival (Hasya Kavi Sammelan) at the Courtyard By Marriott Brampton.
 * Ref 2 LUCKNOW Comic poet Sarvesh Asthana would be representing Lucknow at the Kavi Sammelan organized by the All-India Hindi Akademi at Lal Qila in New Delhi on January 10. The event is organized to mark Republic Day celebrations every year. A recipient of Kaka Hathrasi Award and Yash Bharti Award, Asthana has toured many other countries to popularize Hindi poetry. This an annoucement of an event.
 * Ref 3 Another noted poet and Yash Bharti awardee Sarvesh Asthana said, “I will meet the chief minister with the delegation of award winners, I will speak my mind there.”  A passing mention and annoucement.
 * Ref 4 States he won the award. 73 people on the same time won the award.
 * Ref 5 An annoucement. Eminent poet Sarvesh Asthana from Lucknow is also coming to attend this event to tickle everyone with his funny compositions in satire A passing mention.
 * Ref 6 Sarvesh Asthana has been named advisor to the Indian Council for Cultural Relations A passing mention. A very short paragraph indicating he do his best for young artists. Same annoucement.
 * Ref 7 Annoucement of celebration of freedom fighter and details the father of Sarvesh. A passing mention.
 * Ref 8 Sarvesh Asthana of Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh is a famous satirist who has participated in Kavi Sammelans and Mushairas since 1989.
 * Ref 9 Sarvesh Asthana of Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh is a famous satirist who has participated in Kavi Sammelans and Mushairas since 1989 Ref 8 and 9 are profiles.
 * Ref 10 Sarvesh Asthana of Lucknow, a recipient of Uttar Pradesh’s highest civilian award ‘Yash Bharati’ and numerous national and international awards, is a famous satirist who has been participating in Kavi Sammelans and Mushairas since 1989.

Six of the 10 references are annoucements. Two of them are taken from the same profile. They are very poor for a BLP. The award that is seen as prestigious doesn't have an article on Wikipedia. That doesn't indicate it is non-notable, but 73 people received the same award on the same day, which makes it suspect. Where is reviews of his work. Is it case that western poets always need to have reviews of their work on here, and eastern poets don't? Two reviews in a recognised academic or poetry journal that would do it.  scope_creep Talk  15:22, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * They're is a lots of low-quality coverage on the subject with no reviews. Please read Paid news in India. I don't see secondary sources for this BLP, nor reviews.   scope_creep Talk  16:03, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Comment: You have mentioned twice that Yash Bharati has no separate Wikipedia page. I tink, you are mistaken, the prestigious award has a Wikipedia page. You can check, Yash Bharati.

About reviews, the subject is performing poet, a kind of stage artist. Such poets are popular because of their performance and popularising Hindi or folk poetry and literature through their performance. Due to his contribution in Hindi literature, he was honored with Yash Bharati by the Uttar Pradesh government. I research and found a few more reference such as Amar Ujala (1), Prabhasakshi (2), Hindustan (newspaper) (3), (4), (5) I might add it later. Seeing his media coverage, he clearly meets the BASIC of Notability and as he is the recipient of prestigious Yash Bharati for his contribution in literature, he meets WP:NPEOPLE and WP:ANYBIO.--Ajinkyasingh (talk) 16:43, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for posting that up. I didn't see it. You seems to posting up lots of low-quality small paragraphs here and there. Where are the reviews of his poetry, to indicate he is not. Not annoucements, not clickbaits sites, not wee bits of PR or small paragraphs of past events. Real secondary sources, reviews of his work in a critical poetry journal. Two of them and this Afd will close immediately.   scope_creep Talk  20:11, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

There are references also in Ataeva, again by Uttara Pradeśa Hindī Saṃsthāna. Uttar Pradesh Chief minister Yogi Adityanath is the principal administrator of Uttara Pradeśa Hindī Saṃsthāna. Asthana's poetry has reference in discussions in Chāyānata and Vatana hai to hama haiṃ by Bhārata Buka Seṇṭara. Copy of the later text is available at eleven (11) US University libraries as per Worldcat despite its being a Hindi text. I am neither in favor of keeping this article nor deleting it - just stating the facts. Di xi  ku  15:46, 6 October 2021 (UTC) Blocked.
 * Yip, I understand he written 7 books and libraries hold these books. Where is the reviews of any of these books, and the poetry they contain?   scope_creep Talk  20:49, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Substantive analysis of the sources is still lacking.
 * Delete. No significant coverage. None of the sources focus, at least mostly, either on him as a person, or his work. Dege31 (talk) 13:46, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 10:48, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm astounded at the personal attacks in this discussion. When I voted a strong keep earlier, the person who posted this AfD said I must not have read the references and kept asking where the reviews are. Notability on Wikipedia for writers isn't based solely on reviews. Looking at the media sources out there it is obvious there's enough for notability. For example, this article in the Indo American News discusses his poetry and life alongside two other poets. He's also featured in multiple articles in the Times of India, the largest English language newspaper in the country, and the Hindustan Times, another large English paper (for links see 1, 2, 3). And there are more non-English source focused on this subject (check out this article on him, or this one). Or check out the 94 other media articles about him from the last few years in Google News! That's 94 news articles either about this poet or mentioning him in the last few years. Do you know how few poets in the world receive that much media attention? Finally the government of Uttar Pradesh, a state with a population of nearly 200 million people, gave him their top civilian award the Yash Bharati. If the United Kingdom, a country with a population of only 67 million, gave a poet their top civilian award, we wouldn't be debating if they were notable or not. We'd accept they were notable. The totality of the reliable coverage on this subject and the significant awards he's received support notability. It's that simple. --SouthernNights (talk) 14:07, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * They're was no personal attacks on this page, and if you repeat that again, your going straight up to AN. Reviews are the only thing that can prove the person is a poet.  scope_creep Talk  14:24, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Reviews are not the only thing that prove a person is a poet. As stated in the Wikipedia's notability guidelines for people under creative professionals, notability can be determined by "multiple independent periodical articles or reviews." So reviews are one way to prove notability, but so are multiple independent periodical articles, which we have plenty of here. As for personal attacks, you stated "You haven't looked at them have you" in your original response to me, referring to me not reading the references. That was an attack, as is threatening to take me to AN if I repeat that. That has no place in an AfD.--SouthernNights (talk) 14:33, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * As other commentators said, it was awarded to 73 people at the same time, not only to him. So it's as if eg. he received it in Gabon. Even in that case, it would count towards notability if it was exclusive. But considering it is not, it's incomparable. The number of news articles mentioning him is not relevant, because routine coverage and significant coverage are not the same thing. There are many tabloids covering reality show participants, as well, here and there. Do they cover him or his work as the focus, for more than a small paragraph? In all the sources given, the subject is mentioned in passing or collectively.  Dege31 (talk) 15:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The award doesn't appear to be given out every year so yes, they give it to multiple people when it is awarded. But none of that takes away from it's significance or proof of notability. The award appears similar to the Order of the British Empire, which is also awarded to multiple people at one time yet is also strong proof of notability for a subject. And yes, some of the articles I referenced only discuss him for a paragraph or two, but others focus extensively on this work. Both of the Hindu-language newspaper articles I linked to feature in-depth video interviews with the subject, one in the Rajasthan Patrika paper and the other in the Hindustan Dainik. (Hindustan Dainik article and Rajasthan Patrika article). Both of these Hindu-language papers have circulations in the millions and ran articles exclusively about him, with video interviews. Again, the totality of the media coverage and the awards he's received support notability.--SouthernNights (talk) 15:32, 23 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep, as he received a major award.Jackattack1597 (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: The early references, which appear to be the ones attesting notability, translated contain bare mentions or no mention. The first claim to notability, awarded the Yash Bharati, is awarded to many people, the vast majority not notable, and there is no comment to be found about him receiving the awards. SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:05, 4 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.