Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Satchel's Pizza


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:36, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Satchel's Pizza

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Delete. Local pizza joint. Press limited to local articles about a fire that took place February 2012. Wikipedia is not news. Recommend deletion due to lack of established notability in accordance with the general notability guidelines, which require significant coverage in reliable and independent sources. See also the notability guidelines for organizations, which additionally have not been met to establish notability. Best regards,  Cindy  ( talk to me ) 18:32, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. It's one of the busiest and most well known restaurants in Gainesville, and I believe it to be notable based on what is currently in the article. The articles that are cited don't just talk about the fire; they also demonstrate its notability in Gainesville. --Pikamander2 (talk) 02:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - Article citations are mostly WP:Routine: fire at location, people loose their job, store reopens. One is WP:Primary sources and only one is actually about the business. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:31, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 22:14, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 22:14, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 19:18, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:07, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - Disagree with characterization of article cites by User:Jerem43 / Jeremy. Footnotes 2 & 3 are profiles of the restaurant in the local press, thus suggesting sufficient local coverage to demonstrate notability within Gainesville.  (They're not just "opening/closing" press release coverage or routine restaurant reviews.) Another of the cites is a Florida tourism website (InsideFlorida.com) which wouldn't support notability by itself, but given its coverage ("Florida"), the inclusion of Satchel's as the only restaurant is supportive of other notability claims.  Similarly, articles on the fire are just routine business articles in the absence of preexisting notability, but are supportive of notability that already exists. Footnote 1 is a self-sourced item, but only used to provide basic background fact, as is permissible.  --Lquilter (talk) 10:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * A little googling:
 * Lonely Planet: "Two miles east of downtown, this wacky place has the best pizza on Florida’s east coast (and a darn good salad, to boot). ... Skip Satchel’s and you miss Gainesville’s soul." ... "Ranked #1 of 33 things to do in Gainesville by Lonely Planet travellers."
 * high ratings, and LOTS of them, from tripadvisor.com and urbanspoon.com.
 * So this all appears to go well beyond "routine restaurant reviews" and routine business coverage. --Lquilter (talk) 10:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note - Those are reviews and survey which do not confer notability. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 03:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Granted, but in context of other things that meet notability threshold (the requisite cites), they are supportive. --Lquilter (talk) 12:24, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What they do is establish the existence of the chain, but not why is is notable. To be truly notable, you need sources that establish its history as a business separate from reviews and local stories about a location of the business. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 18:01, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * AFAIK it's not a chain but a stand-alone restaurant. Anyway, the local stories (there are lots and lots more than are currently cited) are about way more than a/the "location of the business".  We have lots of independent sources about the business and that suffices for notability.  Many of the reviews and so forth in various review sites and blogs (there are hundreds of these) are non-trivial and say things like, "Satchel's Pizza (1800 NE 23rd Avenue) is a Gainesville landmark."  The "classic" / "landmark" / etc. language is all over the place in articles about this place.
 * More generally, what we have here is a local restaurant in a good-sized city, by all accounts very popular, routinely described as a "landmark" or with similar language, and with lots of independent press coverage of the travails of its business and the rescue/benefit efforts involved. To me the "landmark" and similar language is what suggests its notability.  But if this doesn't do it for you, then I'm wondering if you can give me an example of what would?  For instance, Dreamland Bar-B-Que in Tuscaloosa has routinely showed up in best-of lists (like Satchel's Pizza); its business issues (tax problems) were widely covered in the local and regional press (as with the fire for Satchel's), and it was frequently described as a "landmark", "the soul of..." Tuscaloosa, and so forth.  I would consider these pretty analogous.  --Lquilter (talk) 23:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2012 (UTC)




 * Keep - This is the subject of multiple instances of substantial, independent published coverage, in my estimation. It is not our place to judge whether a business is "big enough" or "unique enough," only whether it has been "covered enough" — and this has. Don't worry, we won't run out of electrons, Wikipedia is not paper. Carrite (talk) 22:04, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.