Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Save Sibelius


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Sibelius Software. Drmies (talk) 16:53, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Save Sibelius

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Not a notable advocacy effort; the references generally don't discuss the campaign or are to non-reliable sources like message boards. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 04:18, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 04:22, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 04:22, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 04:22, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep The citations include reference to the notable BBC radio interview of notable composer Paul Mealor regarding the firing of the development team of the notable application Sibelius (software) by notable tech giant Avid Tech. The story was also published in the notable magazine MacUser and a page reference, date of publication and title is provided for this.  While it is acknowledged that some of the citations are to blog type, it is possible to delete these and retain the provably notable and verifiable sources as mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisdevelop (talk • contribs)  — Note to closing admin: Chrisdevelop (talk • contribs)  is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD.


 * The Sibelius (software) application is the largest selling music notation application in the world, and has won the Queen's Award for Enterprise. The Save Sibelius campaign attracted international attention among its user base.  It is of high interest to those with an interest in music notation applications, the issue of orphaned technology, and the ability of a user base to affect decisions of large corporations through grass roots activism involving primarily social media and IT.  One of the citations is on Avid Tech's own website.  Orphaned technology is the issue propelling the activism in this case, and a reference to this campaign was added in the process of propagating the article. An opening paragraph has now been added laying down the grounds for the activism, and opening the wider picture of foreign ownership of local (British) products and the effect this has on employees, stockholders, and ultimately its consumers.
 * Research is ongoing for related material to these wider issues. Have fleshed out the body of the article to go to notable issues, including Asset stripping and a more detailed background to concerns that gave rise to the activism in the first place.
 * Not sure how to change the article name, which might be better titled "Save Sibelius campaign"
 * Have to sleep now, having been up all night trying to save this article. Will continue research going forward if this can be held for a reasonable time.
 * Please leave comments on edits and improvements made to the article. Chrisdevelop (talk)


 * merge to Sibelius Software as I see no need to fork this off from it. Mangoe (talk) 17:06, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

It has been suggested that this article be merged with Sibelius Software, however there is also a page called Sibelius (software). On the same reasoning, why are these two nearly identically named pages allowed to exist separately? Does it make sense to merge all three?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibelius_(software) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibelius_Software

Chrisdevelop (talk)

Criticism that not enough of the citations discussed the campaign has been addressed by the inclusion of the following links which directly discuss the campaign:

https://www.scoringnotes.com/people/avids-michael-ost-speaks-about-sibelius/ (paragraph 5)

http://www.zdnet.com/article/users-petition-avid-to-sell-sibelius-music-software-arm/

YouTube podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xxbYUIgBOg

several more citations have been added and improvements have been made to the flow.

The page has been renamed to "'Save Sibelius' campaign" to more accurately reveal the likely contents.

Chrisdevelop (talk)

several Categories have been added to the list, and two new ones created

Chrisdevelop (talk)

Further improvements have been made to the ordering of the paragraphs in the article and clarifying insertions made.

Chrisdevelop (talk)

Added ‘Kirn, Peter. (9 August 2012). Avid’s Sibelius Scoring Tool Marches On, But Without Its Creators, As Users Protest. Publisher: Create Digital Media (Berlin, Germany)’

Chrisdevelop (talk)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 02:27, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge to Sibelius (software)- sources don't support its own article.--Rusf10 (talk) 04:05, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

This article is not primarily about Sibelius (software) or Sibelius Software, although links to it should be posted inside both these pages. It is about notable user activism against asset stripping, abandonware, planned obsolescence and orphaned technology in which pages links have been placed to the Sibelius example. This aspect would be obscured if it were enclosed inside a single parent article for Sibelius. Other examples given of Mosaic notation program and OMS would likewise lose their cogency inside a Sibelius only chapter. The notability of the 'Save Sibelius' campaign lies in the fact that hundreds of thousands of users were impacted, and while users often grudgingly tolerate these practices and cope with the associated costs of upgrading their equipment and losing their archival work, on this occasion they did not and went to the limits of their ability to change the parent company's mind. It doesn't necessarily count against them that they failed despite the intervention of the company founders, months of activism involving tens of thousands of emails to Avid Tech board members, radio interviews including BBC, numerous articles including MacUser, a public EGM called by BASCA and a 12,000 strong Change.org petition hand delivered to the general manager at that BASCA meeting, but in the Sibelius example, the owning company's actions provoked the creation of a rival application to its own best selling product, created by the very developers whom they had fired. Perhaps the article should be renamed again, so its significance is more generically perceived than being just about Sibelius.

So far as merging goes, we already have two identically named articles (Sibelius (software) and Sibelius Software) and it may be these should be either merged or renamed, since they both actually ARE solely about Sibelius scorewriter.

Chrisdevelop (talk)

This Save Sibelius article was originally a paragraph in an article being written about the notable activist and musician, Derek Williams, currently in the Sandbox editor, however that page has become unwieldy and this is one of three paragraphs to be snipped to try to reduce its length. The other two paragraphs to be migrated for the same reason are the one on Claud Williams and Auckland University Festival Choir which it is hoped will stand as articles in their own right.

Chrisdevelop (talk)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: We need comments by people other than Chrisdevelop.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:43, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge to Sibelius Software. A bunch of content can be still pretty useful. Raymond3023 (talk) 19:57, 20 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.