Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sawyer Integrated School


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Regardless of notability standards for schools, there's no other way this can be closed if third-party reliable sources are not available.  Hut 8.5  21:49, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Sawyer Integrated School

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Found this article in the underlinked backlog.

Subject is a Philippine primary/secondary school. It cites no sources at all and makes no claim to notability. Per WP:NSCHOOLS, a school needs to meet the general notability guideline. Primary school articles tend to be redirected at AFD, but as this one cites no sources at all I'd argue that deletion is the better option.  A  Train ''talk 10:48, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:50, 5 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep as a secondary school per longstanding consensus and precedent. Clear evidence of its existence can be found on even a cursory Google search. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:07, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If you found anything like a reliable source in your Google search it'd be great if you could post it.  A  Train ''talk 15:58, 5 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Weak delete, which isn't a option I take lightly for a secondary school. This is a little lengthy, so bear with me. Until very recently, education in the Philippines was on a 10-year system rather than the global K-12 standard. According to consensus guidelines, any SHS--Senior High School, offering the grade 11 and 12 curricula, at a minimum--or any fully K-12 school would have a presumption of notability and should be quickly kept at AFD. The question thus becomes whether this institution qualifies. The Philippine Department of Education provides a list (in several parts) of schools with eligible graduates: those institutions whose diplomas are fully accepted for entrance to university programs in the Philippines. Sawyer (in any variation of its name) is not on that list. The Department of Education also maintains a much longer index of all recognized K-12 program schools in the country (many of which have not fully completed the transition to the 12-year program). Sawyer is also not on that list. Based on available evidence, the only conclusion is that Sawyer is not currently an "independently accredited degree-awarding" high school as defined in WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES, and so gets no exemption from sourcing obligations. The potential counter-argument, and reason for the weakness of my delete !vote, is "once notable, always notable"; it is possible that the secondary education program as Sawyer Integrated School (from 2010–11 until the K-12 legislation) would have qualified it under SCHOOLOUTCOMES. But that was not necessarily the case (if it offered a Grade 8 curriculum, it would have had a secondary education program, but would not have been a degree-granting school, for example). In any case, the absolute dearth of reliable sources doesn't provide a lot of room to give it the benefit of the doubt. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 17:24, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The wording in WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES is independently accredited degree-awarding institutions and high schools - very different from the independently accredited degree-awarding institutions which you quote. "High school" isn't defined, and High school shows a wide range of uses in different countries. Not all high schools in the UK have sixth-forms (ie the last two years before higher education) - see Samuel King's School for an example (one of the smallest secondary schools in England in a very isolated small town high up, by UK standards, in the Pennines). I agree that we need a source for this Sawyer school, but I'm not convinced by your definition of what makes a school a "high school" within the terms of WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES and thus by consensus notable once sourced. Pam  D  17:42, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Admittedly, situations aren't always analogous, especially as there's never been a "middle school" distinction in the Philippines. A school in the United States that offered no higher education than Grade 7 would not be considered a "high school" and wouldn't receive the lower inclusion bar of SCHOOLOUTCOMES. However a private school offering (under the old system) a Grade 7 curriculum in the Philippines would rightly have been described as having a "secondary education program". But I hardly think that's what the guideline intended. And its current status isn't clear at all. If it offers the full 7-10 "junior high school" program (and we had some sort of halfway reliable sourcing to that end), then I'd likely not argue for deletion, since we apparently do retain, solely on existence, American schools that offer 9/10 programs but no higher (and, it seems, their UK equivalents). But we don't have sources to say it does. All we do know is that it doesn't offer Grade 11-12 curricula under the country's new education system, and that it doesn't appear in reliable sources. SCHOOLOUTCOMES is designed to give a lot of benefit of the doubt to education institutions, but not this much. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 18:05, 5 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep if a reliable source can be found, and added to article, to verify its existence as a secondary school (not necessarily with the equivalent of a UK sixth form). Pam  D  17:46, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:VERIFY in its present state, and a Google search does not suggest the presence of adequate sources. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:48, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Simply stating Keep per SO is no longer enough and simply saying "there's sources on Google" holds no weight either, I can't find anything to confirm this schools existence and clearly neither can anyone else so it should be deleted accordingly. – Davey 2010 Talk 23:41, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.