Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SayadawGyi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  MBisanz  talk 01:13, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

SayadawGyi

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Non-notable title in Burmese... doesn't belong as an article Ogress smash! 22:58, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Gyi is also notable Title for Burmese in Myanmar / Burma such as  Sayagyi U Ba Khin whereas " gyi" word and India such as  Goenkaji/ Goenka gyi (in Burmese way) S. N. Goenka
 * Strong Keep, SayadawGyi is notable Title in Burmese such as Sayadaw is notable monk title, may see more at Sayadaw,

Both combining two words just make it greater ranking person as Sayadawgyi. Sayadaw Title word taken by normal monk and Saya (master) for normal person Title ( non-monk) in Burmese.

Gyi in Burmese literally make it greater person and "Gyi" word quite widely use in ranking as senior. For example Corporal rank in Burmese Army addressing as "Saya" but for Sergeant rank as " Sayagyi", same in schools' customs- normal teacher as "Saya" and headmaster as " Sayagyi", as well as "Bogyoke" means Major General like Aung San and "Bogyokegyi" means full general. " when added Gyi word after front Title then it get changed.

Sayadawgyi can be senior monk/ Abbot, normally much senior in time/ year(s) than normal junior monk, often may in-charge of world monastery or Meditation Centre or have been monk for many years, little similar to Guruji, guruji Title in India but that's Buddhist stuff. Burmese addressing in different ways so shouldn't make mistake rather than who they referring to rather than not by calling their names to make it polite, like using words "Your Majesty" in Royal, they mostly won't address direct name for normal monks and higher monks unless needed.

Sayadawgyi or Sayadawpayagyi Title is widely well-known in Burmese communities in Myanmar.

please may also see more about Saya Burmese in Saya Gyi U Ba Khin, Saya Aye, Saya San, Saya Tin

Please it is in Burmese language in Title and the nominator doesn't speak Burmese ( can't speak i believe), non-Buddhist i hope, wasn't born there and doesn't know Myanmar culture well ,so please leave it for some other nations' culture and customs usages to share knowledge for world communities, let people know and keep much better contribute.

Please may just Edit upgrade by some Burmese experts and make it better article.

Myo007   22:37, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Asia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:52, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Buddhism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:52, 23 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - honorifics are highly significant to certain cultures and the most common/significant ones are deserving of articles. —Мандичка YO 😜 00:30, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment You think gyi and sayadawgyi are the most common/significant of honorifics? Ogress smash! 02:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do believe they are common, significant and notable, and I WP:AGF that above, who I am willing to bet is knowledgeable about Myanmar, knows what he is talking about. Myo007 above, and on Talk:SayadawGyi, has stated the article will be improved by Myanmar experts and I think this is a reasonable request instead of arguing. Please consider reading WP:WORLDVIEW.  —Мандичка YO 😜 05:06, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Stephanie Latt   21:39, 24 June 2015 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephanie Latt (talk • contribs)  — Stephanie Latt (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment: this is Wikipedia, not a grammar of Burmese. Ogress smash! 02:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Strongly Keep - Grammatically, "Gyi" is just the adjective word modifying the noun "Sayardaw". It is a simple word just adding the meaning to be greater and higher in degree. Every Buddhism knows the meaning of Sayardaw as the senior monk. "Gyi" going with "Sayardaw" is paying respect and make it greater. VERY SIMPLE!
 * Delete. I'm not going to take a stance on whether honorifics are notable, but this fails WP:V and WP:NAD. ~ RobTalk 08:55, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Adding this back, since someone deleted my comment from the deletion discussion. I would hope this goes without saying, but don't do that. ~ RobTalk 20:25, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JAaron95  &#40; Talk &#41;  13:42, 30 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Here is the point, it is a high monk Title but not simple Burmese name and yet it is not too easy to earn that Title, there are all Theravada Buddhist monks on earth do the Wa upgrading, in each year there are 3 months of special Warso times and also must become a monk before that, if can be succeed in warso and  remained as a monk then he gets 1 Wa otherwise if missed out then need to wait for another year to come to get 1 Wa, lower grade monks will vows/ pay homages to higher grades monks and Abbots and if not high Abbot as SayadawGyi then one may still maintain as normal monk Sayadaw.


 * Why not too easy ? To get an (The Great) Tile as SayadawGyi because he need to have many Wa(s)/ many years being as monk may be like 10, 20 or 40 years or more, he needs to get though a lot of things by maintaining 227 Sila precepts and many Winee(rules) such as can't have meal after 12 noons, can't sleep on bed for many hours otherwise must be awake, must be abstain from sensual pleasures such as listen music or watch dancing and so on other (if high rules broken such as Parajika then he can immediate lost from monk and become normal person), has to wake up around about 4 AM daily or some mediators may wake from 3AM, many other more, monk lives is not that too easy or need to work hard and much more effort to become a high senior monk Abbot SayadawGyi, thus this title is significantly valuable and need to pass though much patience in his life. In Many cases there are many normal monks such as "Sayadaws" but SayadawGyi can only be just one or  there are few abbots in some monasteries (normally they take in-charge whole centers ). They are highly respected as high Abbot in Burmese culture and an Abbot who has that title in Buddhist communities even both people and monks high respect to him. In wikipedia there are Monk and Abbot words under different articles because they are not exactly same but this SayadawGyi is Theravada Burmese version and smaller Wa Sayadaw not same too. Does it honorific? Yes but for example even if we temporarily forget about honorific and respectable Title but this is not still simple title that too easy to get for a monk.


 * So we should leave it for foreign Buddhist learners for Burmese usage term apart from upgrading the article better. Yes this is not about a opening definition for Dictionary either but simply knowledge share as SayadawGyi article otherwise we would have been put Monk and Abbot article under only wiki dictionary (only) too. If we have been allowed Sayadaw article then we should allow SayadawGyi too but why need separate article because it is like UK Royal Titles, the grades are not same and not should be done with few words mentioned for a high monk Title upgrading. Need to verify? actually not so hard to verify about existence if effort to find out. So we should keep the article and since not too simple easy one to earn then should merge under Burmese names since it is not actually a name but a Title and also at any time if a monk quit from monk-hood then all his Wa(s)  lost and even if tomorrow rejoin monk again then need to restart from beginning again with no Wa, yet then he has to pay homage/ vow to other monk even who has just 1 Wa no matter how much his Wa(s)  obtained before. so to maintain Great title then 1. he need to keep remain as monk for many years without even short period quitting 2. Can't be have just only few Wa(s) to get title SayadawGyi. it may be still some similar apply on Shaolin monk who may not too easy to become an Abbot at Shaolin but they are Maharana Buddhist and Buddhism have more than one version currently.


 * Please note: Myanmar(Burma) was under military regime for very long years after military coup the run with bad politics and leaders, there has been one of world longest civil wars conflicts countries with ethnics groups, included in one of poorest, internet access have been limited for long before and until now internet speed is still quite slow enough, closed media connections with outside countries and inside for decades. Not English as one of main official languages like Singapore but mostly spoken Burmese and not as many as some other countries who can contribute in English over online. That's overall may lead to one of process issue verifications online but still may find sources if you want and there is not totally zero yet. But i think we should have exempts in policies for some wars torn countries or poor countries like Burma, Afghan so on, that who have may be English as not main fluently speaking language , have different cultures and ethnics but they may still wises to express and share knowledge as freedom of speech and equal opportunities.

Sharing came out of our pure merit heart of our souls to share what we know and give knowledge to people, if gonna get deleted because of not many enough people capable of contributes online with English on other web sites.

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * 1. The title as the High Holiness/ The Most Venerable/ The Highly respectable Abbot/ Kyayzutawshin SayadawGyi is not just an ordinary title that easy to get and there are honorific titles still can have as articles on wiki if notable 2. SayadawGyi is not actually a birth given name (unlike names some of the Titles could lose or revoked if regulations/conducts not met) 3. honorific is in on hand and precious Title is on other hand as well although both hands attached on same body, no matter don't care for honorific issue on Wiki or not but there are many honorific Titles still remaining as articles on Wiki and even for other language terms such as Indian, Arabic. 4. If we keep Monk and Abbot articles then we should keep Sayadaw and SayadawGyi too, there are Millions Buddhists still out there and a lot of tourists who entry into Burma and the knowledge are needed in Wiki for the people to know.  Myo007   18:23, 03 July 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 18:55, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - Per above.VictoriaGraysonTalk 01:03, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.