Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Schoolgirl Apocalypse


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. The article has changed significantly since it was nominated and notability has now been established, as all contributors to the AFD since the improvements have been made support. The arguments made by those for deletion no longer apply. Davewild (talk) 19:12, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Schoolgirl Apocalypse

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This film has not been commercially released, was only shown at a film festival, has received no third-party coverage, and thus fails the Notability (films) notability criteria. --DAJF (talk) 10:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - I agree with the issues you've outlined, and would add that the plot section is so poorly written it's almost incomprehensible--Williamsburgland (talk) 13:29, 3 July 2012 (UTC).
 * Re-writing a plot summary is not all that difficult.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 00:51, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 13:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 13:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep the topic meetsWP:GNG Puchon International Fantastic Film Festival (has a Wikipedia entry) is a legitimate fantastic film festival in Seoul Korea and is noteworthy. Schoolgirl Apocalypse was developed in the IT Project and has screened at two consecutive festivals. In weeks the full lineup to the Fantasia Festival in Montreal (has a Wikipedia entry and is a notable fanastic film festival) will be announced and Schoolgirl Apocalypse will screen on July 30th of this festival as well.
 * Yukie Kito (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2183344/) has worked with Mira Nair, Wayne Wang and Jim Jarmusch and her film   "Tokyo Sonata" received "Un Certain Regard Jury Prize" at the Cannes Film Festival (has a Wikipedia entry) in 2008.
 * While you may not have heard of these festivals, this producer or this film, these are facts and and within certain film communities these festivals, the producer and the film are known and recognized.
 * It is true that IMDB has been slow to be updated, however even the most perfunctory check of the links provided demonstrates the facts.
 * A film review was published in the Dec 2011 issue of "Écran Fantastique", a French fantastic film magazine. While the article is not on their website they do still have photos up http://www.ecranfantastique.net/4images/categories.php?cat_id=3659, and the full 5 page spread is shown on the Schoolgirl Apocalyse website media page (both English and Japanese sites) http://www.schoolgirlapocalypse.com/medialink.html. It was also reviewed by a German online film site when the film showed at the Japan Filmfest Hamburg http://www.dasmanifest.com/04/japanfilmfesthamburg2012.php
 * Forthcoming update will include the release date once it is announced, however it is currently scheduled for second week in Aug.
 * What is true is that I am new as a Wikipedian, my apologies for this. It is true that my formatting needs a great deal of work and your support in this has been appreciated.
 * Another Wikipedian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Avicennasis also seems to agree in the legitimacy and notability of the film Schoolgirl Apocalypse, given his contribution to the edit of the article.
 * If a film such as "Zombie Ass" (has a Wikipedia entry)can be considered a notable Wikipedia entry, surely "Schoolgirl Apocalypse", which in fact is an art film masking as a so-called "sushi typhoon" type film , can attain equal status.
 * As for the facts, your consideration of these facts is appreciated. Please do not delete this entry.  -MrDOBDOB  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrDOBDOB (talk • contribs) 15:21, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Attacking other films doesn't help your argument. Please read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.  If you can provide links to reviews or other press sources (in whatever language, but not press releases or advertising) that would be useful, however.  --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:42, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete, not a notable film per our guidelines. NawlinWiki (talk) 19:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Incubate for a short while. We have an film article that is undergoing improvement (albeit slowly), and an author interested in continuing its improvement. Issues seen here is a contibution from a new editor, and his angst at it being nominated for deletion. BUT as the film is completed, has screened, the topic is verifiable, and we do have an anticipated release just next month... we do the project far more good by placing it in the incubator for a few weeks and encouraging input from Japanese-language-reading Wikipedians than by outright deletion. And while we wait, the 5-page spread in Écran Fantastique might be brought forward and would do much toward addressing concerns with sourcing.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 00:49, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed mind per sources coming forward and more anticipated within 2 weeks.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 17:03, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you Schmidt, Michael Q. How would you advise that since the Ecran article is in print only (Dec 2011)? It is clearly shown on the www.schoolgirlapocalypse.com site under "media" and photos show on the Ecran website (linked above)
 * Colapeninsula - Am curious who you believe is "attacking" which movie. If you refer to my mention of "Zombie Ass" am curious how you construed your opinion. Mention of "Zombie Ass" in fact is relative as they are both recent Japanese zombie films. A website "All things Zombie" referred to both films in a recent post http://www.allthingszombie.com/mb/index.php?/topic/9662-japanese-zombie-movies-2011-12-round-up/
 * For those who refute the notability could we see some detailed argument
 * Are the cited references 1. Legitimate or not 2. Notable or not
 * Ref argument sited above
 * 1. Puchon International Fantastic Film Festival is legitimate and notable.
 * 2. Yukie Kito, is a legitimate and notable Producer. Her name is is on all materials and at all festivals the film was shown. While mention is not yet in IMDB that does not mean that Yukie Kito was not the producer. Other references have been sited consistently.
 * 3. Écran Fantastique is a legitimate and notable French film critic magazine, Schoolgirl Apocalypse shows on the Ecran website as well as copies of the Dec issue magazine are on the Schoolgirl Apocalypse website. One might have to purchase the magazine for any further detail, please advise.
 * It seems disingenuous and a bit lazy to not at least make the effort to put forth a cogent and complete argument for why this film is "not notable". All time and effort in this are appreciated. --MrDOBDOB
 * Okay... that the Écran Fantastique article speaks toward the fim is seen at the above link, but not its text. If the article were scanned and the 5 pages displayed readibly in a personal archive, that would allow us to determine its content, and even perhaps use some of its text to expand and cite the article. The article need not be available online.  If you look at the Zombie Ass article, you'll see it has references to multiple sources giving more than just verification of screening, but instead offer commentary and analysis. The Écran Fantastique citation would perform that same function... commentary and analysis.  Speaking about other articles in a "hey, what about X, Y, or Z" fashion is an example of WP:OSE (see WP:WAX and WP:ATA).  Your sources are for the most part fine for verifability of the film's existance and screenings.  But notability for films requires more than simply existing and having screened. Being on IMDB or not really does no matter, as a site it is accepted as being far from comprehensive. What matters here is the film being spoken of in detail in reliable secondary sources, no matter the language. Do you have a link to the Alexander Karenovics, Manifest, Das Filmmagazin?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 06:58, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you again Michael for the objective, detailed and helpful advice. Am assuming the personal archive you mentioned is a repository function availble on Wikipedia? Is this the same as the photo upload or different? Obviously this would be copyrighted material but I think I can locate, scan and upload for reference only. It is in French of course. At any rate will do. Also hope that the Fantasia lineup will be released soon and will update the entry with that reference as well (Fantasia does seem to wait till the very last minute to make it's final schedule public) Thank you again Michael and thanks to any and all for your time and consideration, both for or against this particular article. --MrDOBDOB — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrDOBDOB (talk • contribs) 07:19, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


 * A couple minor things first... To indent a sentence so it is seen as response to a comment above it, use one or two colons at the start of a sentence. To "bullet" the sentence, begin with a * (shift-8). And to have the Wikipedia sign and date yur comment, end it with 4 tildes ( ~ ).
 * The archiving to which I refer is not something we do at Wikipedia. A personal archive would be a file YOU create and store on a free site such as http://photobucket.com There YOU can store scans as a personal archive... no matter the language... and not have its being archved elsewhere be a violation of copyright policies within Wikipedia.  Then, when using such as a citation within Wikipedia, you could use the off-wikipedia url link to the stored image and in the citation reference description state the name and date of the magazine of which you stored the scan (format= personal archive).
 * Study WP:CITE. When using a live online url as a citation, it must be remembered that such do not always last forever, and a page linked today might not be available next month or next year (see WP:LINKROT). For THAT we can preemptively use online archives such as http://webcitation.org, which will store in perpetuity, what the page contained the the date it was archived in their database. The original source page might then vanish, but the archived copy remains in site's database.
 * And back to the article being discussed, the article incubator is a temporary place where an article might be kept on Wikipedia for collaborative editing to address issues and make it and its citations and format suitable for a return to mainspace... a place per Deletion policy where we can "hold" an article whose time is almost here, but not quite yet.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 20:21, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Noted and done. Of being a noob here I am guilty. OK have the scan now and will attempt your recommendation tomorrow. Fantasia Montreal lineup will be announced on July 11th.MrDOBDOB (talk) 02:10, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * MichaelQSchmidt have posted the article as you described to a personal archive and noted that in a new "Reception" section. Also tidied up some spelling and other format issues. Please let me know if this is enough to move this article from Incubate to Keep. Again your time is appreciated in this. Again Fantasia lineup announcement is scheduled for July 11.MrDOBDOB (talk) 10:20, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Will work on translations. Could you perhaps email me a larger scans of those pages? I have an email link on my user page.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 04:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Can do. Monday Asia time, Sunday North AmericanMrDOBDOB (talk) 06:29, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel terribly nooby today, can not find your email link in the 20 mins spent searching on your user page. Any hints? Sorry about this. Do have a new scan for you. Also your user page is very impressive. Thank you for the continued kind support. MrDOBDOB (talk) 09:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Incubate Keep. As the article creator is fairly new, we should probably not be too harsh on him. Nevertheless, I failed to find much coverage in either English or Japanese, which is understandable since the film hasn't been released yet. However, as the article does look promising, for now, I would suggest incubating until after its release and more sources are found. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:14, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless, since MichaelQSchmidt was able to find some reliable coverage (though not in Japanese), it can have an article. The article needs to be cleaned up, however. Still, the article is quite promising, and I can help clean it up a little if you guys want. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Please check new sources and coverage in German and French. Thank you. MrDOBDOB (talk) 10:20, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if, it's probably best to incubate this for a while. If you want, I can help you with the article. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:31, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the kind offer. I do hope the references will push this article to keep. But if the Administrator does not agree I would very much appreciate your help in this. Again thank you.MrDOBDOB (talk) 12:52, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, don't hold your breath regarding its long-awaited general commercial release, as it was supposed to be released "later this year" back in August 2011, and the August 2012 release date now claimed by the article author is not mentioned anywhere on the film's official site, which, with one month to go, makes me somewhat skeptical. While I am sure that the author would like to see his article about the film kept, this is increasingly looking to me like a case of WP:TOOSOON. --DAJF (talk) 10:35, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well... "commercial release" is wonderful, but it does not guarantee any film receive the requisite coverage. Indeed, many films that have never have commercial release are still able to be found notable through their coverage.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 04:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So does that mean the article should be incubated or not? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Please see the reviews in the mentioned articles. So as you can see the film exists, is legitimate, recognized and even respected by third party reviewers. As for your continued aggression and disbelief about a release date DAJF perhaps if you were just a bit patient you would see. MrDOBDOB (talk) 12:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Got any reliable sources to confirm a date of release? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:52, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * As explained above in response to DAJF... theatrical release is not a mandate per WP:NF. This film HAS screened and as shown, HAS received non-English commentary and review.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 04:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Not yet but I understand that the distributor is planning a press release that will be posted on the schoolgirlapocalypse.com site once released. I would imagine that it would also be time around when Fantasia releases their lineup on July 11th. Could not be much past that.MrDOBDOB (talk) 12:55, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, if that's the case, then it's probably to incubate the article at least for now. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:56, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't be for too long, in any case. Once I am able to translate the offered sources, I'll be doing some work on it myself.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 04:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Most kind. Thank you for the objective perspective and support MichaelQSchmidt. To others with a considered view, even critical, your time in this is appreciated.MrDOBDOB (talk) 06:29, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It appears other Wikipedians have found the Fantasia　lineup　release　ａｎｎｏｕｎｃｅｍｅｎｔ　（before　July１１ｔｈ　as　I had heard)　and　cited　it　as　well　as　other　Japanese　ａｒｔｉｃｌｅｓ. MrDOBDOB (talk) 06:40, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup. Found it and added... and did some other expansion as well. Also found it reviewed by Korean language sources.(google translate) and (google translate) We may not have to incubate this one after all...  as it is receiving international commentary and is due to screen at the Fantasia Film Festival in less than two weeks. I think it reasonable to state that as it is completed and screened, WP:NFF does not apply and it is creeping up on WP:NF... and as it has growing coverage, we can allow it to remain and be improved over the next few weeks as new sources present themselves... with English language sources being quite likely forthcoming.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 07:19, 7 July 2012 (UTC)




 * Keep per excellent work and improvements by Schmidt. Cavarrone (talk) 19:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Schmidt has done a fantastic job on this article. Very grateful for the kind support and apologies for any inconvenience to him and others. Thank you.MrDOBDOB (talk) 03:51, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.