Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scott Prouty


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. I earlier closed this as redirect which was a poor read of the discussion, mea culpa. On second look their is no clear consensus in this discussion. J04n(talk page) 21:31, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Scott Prouty

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Subject is not notable beyond a single event (BLP1E) and it is arguably the event, not the person, which is notable. AMFMUHFVHF90922 (talk) 17:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep The single event here is history-making. Anders Breivik, after all, is only notable for a single event, and no-one is talking about deleting his bio.  In the words of WP:BLP1E: "the event is significant and the individual's role within it is substantial and well-documented."  Looking at  BIO I find: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate."  Making Prouty's contribution subordinate to the Romney campaign is, as well, an error in thought; in the end Romney's campaign turned out to be subordinate to the actions of Prouty and those like him, not the other way around.  Keep the article.  Randwolf (talk) 16:20, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Mitt_Romney_presidential_campaign,_2012. The video undoubtedly had an extraordinary impact on the election, but that was the event not the person. Arguably a separate article for the video and fallout could be made, but Prouty himself is not particularly notable outside of the event. AniMate 20:57, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree, this looks very much like BLP1E at this moment. Redirect to Mitt_Romney_presidential_campaign,_2012 or to a sub-article specifically about the fundraiser video. --HectorMoffet (talk) 21:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is not Fox News.  This is Wikipedia, and Wikipedia by its stated purpose should include pages for all of the notable determinants in American history that Fox News operatives try to delete from the American consciousness. Just imagine the high school students in 2014 and beyond trying to write a paper on the biography and personal life choices of the one person who caused Romney to lose the election.  Rednblu (talk)
 * Casting political aspersions isn't helpful. Frankly, anyone calling me a Fox News operative is hilarious in the extreme. In fact, there has been very little to no backlash from the right wing media that I can find in regards to Prouty. The fact is this fails WP:BLP1E. The only other truly remarkable thing Prouty has done was help save a woman in a car accident. That's a nice news story, but not notable in terms of an encyclopedia. Rather than attack editors you disagree with, try fleshing out the article with references. Proving notability is always better than going after other editors. AniMate 21:57, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect - WP:BLP1E red dog six  (talk) 22:56, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - WP:BLP1E  Automatic  Strikeout   ( T  •  C ) 02:16, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment I share the BLP1E concerns. On the other hand, I think there should be an article about the recording, and the person who made it can be discussed there.  It is a part of Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2012, but I think there should be a whole article about the recording - who made it and how, where, what it shows, response, and impact on the election.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:28, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Why not be bold? Start the article yourself. I'd check talk:Mitt Romney presidential campaign, 2012 first, and look in the archives and see if it has been discussed before. Leave a note about your intention to create the new article, see what (if any) reactions there are, and decide where to go from there. AniMate 03:53, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Because I'm not that well versed on the subject. Also, I have my hands full - I've made nearly 60,000 edits.  You try it - it's hard.  (And you were the first to suggest such an article here.)  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep - the person who essentially sinks a major party candidacy for president of the United States is historically notable. Millions of people will Google this guy's name to learn what's been written about him. There will be hundreds, even thousands of appearances in the press that we can use as sources. Jehochman Talk 11:42, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This article fails criteria three of WP:BLP1E, "It is not the case that the event is significant and the individual's role within it is substantial and well-documented – as in the case of John Hinckley, Jr., who shot President Ronald Reagan in 1981." All three criteria need to be met to invoke BLP1E. Jehochman Talk 12:16, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * 'keep - subject known for a famous WORK, not merely an event. Is an international activist w rgd workplace conditions who now has, through his many public appearances, become a public person.--Hodgdon&#39;s secret garden (talk) 15:10, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:38, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:38, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:38, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * keep - this is an important article in the history of the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.63.182 (talk) 16:23, 15 March 2013 (UTC) — 24.141.63.182 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete - WP:BLP1E. Pretty clear one event and not notable outside that event.  Arzel (talk) 16:42, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Please read the thing you've linked and explain how each of the three criteria is met. Jehochman Talk 17:17, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I would say that the first sentence pretty much covers #1 Scott Prouty is an American bartender who recorded then Republican Party presidential candidate Mitt Romney's remarks at a private fundraiser. The whole article is in the context of that event.  Plus it is a requirement to explain the event in order to present why he is even known.  I have not seen anything to suggest that he will have any further impact, and all of his coverage is in reference to this event.  His and the two others that helped save that women in 2005 are certainly commendable, but it does not appear to be a highly enclyopedic event.  If not for him coming forward for this it is highly unlikely that hardly anyone outside of that community would ever have heard about that event.  The video is notable, but Scott does not meet our criteria.  Arzel (talk) 22:57, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Please read criteria 3 of BLP1E. This event is historically significant.  Therefore, BLP1E does not apply. Jehochman Talk 12:49, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The "event" is already covered in depth within the presidential article. Prouty's role in the event is not even close to the significance of Hinkley's role in shooting Reagan.  Reagan would not have been shot if not for Hinkley.  Romney, would still have done everything he did if not for Prouty.  He took a video of the event and released it into the wild.  Arzel (talk) 14:34, 16 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Mitt_Romney_presidential_campaign,_2012 per AniMate & WP:BLP1E.--JayJasper (talk) 19:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Redirect at this time to Mitt_Romney_presidential_campaign,_2012, and later, I hope to Mitt Romney 47% video as I believe the video is of enormous historical importance. I will try to explain to Jehochman how the three criteria in WP:BLP1E apply in this case. 1. The sources cover Prouty only in the context of this one event. A rescue is wonderful but not otherwise notable. 2. Prouty is a low-profile individual who remained anonymous for six months and has repeatedly stated in recent days that he does not seek fame for himself. 3. Prouty's role was nowhere near as substantial as John Hinckley's in the Reagan assassination attempt. We have no articles about the videographers or photographers who documented that notable event. Hinckley caused that event himself by wounding four people including a U.S. president and severely disabling one of those, Jim Brady. Mitt Romney was the primary actor in this 2012 event, and if Romney had given his standard stump speech, Prouty would be unknown. Prouty was the messenger, not the historical actor, who was Romney. Prouty deserves a redirect, and some basic biographical information in whatever article describes the video and its political impact in greatest depth, but there is no need for a stand-alone article about him at this time.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  23:52, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This was 'not' a single event. By no reasonable interpretation of 'single event' was this a single event.  This was a nine-month campaign of hundreds of events to 1) throw the election to Obama and then 2) smear Romney as a "vulture capitalist" whose vulture capitalist scheme to export American jobs to cheap labor markets attracted huge Republican campaign donations as proven in the video.  At first, Prouty worked alone, posting teasing snippets of the Romney video to YouTube.  Then from the reporters that showed an interest in what he posted to YouTube, Prouty carefully selected Charlie Kernaghan to assist him in getting universal publication through Mother Jones of the complete video of Romney's self-incriminating remarks while he, Prouty, remained anonymous as a deliberate move in Prouty's personal strategy to throw the election to Obama.  After Obama was elected, Prouty revealed his identity to Kernaghan and formed an alliance with Leo Gerard, President of the United Steelworkers, to plan his next move in smearing Romney as the vulture capitalist shipping jobs overseas that Prouty, Kernaghan, and Gerard think Romney has proven himself to be.  In Prouty's latest move of his nine month campaign to smear Romney as the vulture capitalist revealed in the video, Prouty timed his personal interviews with Ed Schultz and Huffington Post to be just before Romney appeared at the Republican Conservative Political Action Conference.  You won't find any of this on Fox News.  I keep looking there for directions, but I don't find any.  (smile)  . . Rednblu (talk) 03:06, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Rednblu, this actually does constitute a single notable event, as we understand that term on Wikipedia . A notable event will always have a variety of associated non-notable events connected with it. Nothing you have brought forward here leads to the conclusion that BLP1E doesn't apply here. Nice try, though.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  03:32, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No, Cullen, that is not how we understand the term 'single event' on Wikipedia. I give you just a few counter-examples to your misinterpretation of how we understand the term 'single event' on Wikipedia:  Norma McCorvey, Candy Lightner, Lorena Weeks, . . .  Scott Prouty's role here was much more deliberate, more strategic, more effective, and much more substantial than was John Hinckley's role.  Hinckley's actions may have harmed several people, but his actions were not a major factor in throwing the election to Walter Mondale.  . .   Rednblu (talk) 10:20, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Was Rosa Parks just some lady who refused to give her bus seat to a white person? BLP1E...not. Historically significant events are those widely reported, and written about (such as in books). This is different from a soldier killed in action who gets written about in the local papers, for example. However, if that soldier then receives a Medal of Honor, we will create an article. Jehochman Talk 12:56, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * When historians write some books about Prouty and his significance in this event then you will have something. Arzel (talk) 14:38, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * They have and there will be more. Scott Prouty isn't named, but he is mentioned throughout the book by pseudonym, I do believe, if I am reading it correctly. Jehochman Talk 18:32, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * A $0.99 e-book is hardly what I would consider an authoritative historical perspective. Any yahoo with a computer could write an e-book and try to make some money off of it.  Arzel (talk) 02:31, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hee! That is a very clever joke, and so clever a joke that its internal puns and mockery have to be interpreted to the lay reader for any regular wit to get the joke!  For example, the "Any yahoo" in the joke is none other than David Corn who won the George Polk Award for Political Reporting in 2012 for that very piece of reporting that is documented in the e-book.   . .  Rednblu (talk) 06:52, 22 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep – SJ + 02:02, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry SJ, but aren't you an administrator? The least you could do is provide some sort of rationale for your position, this isn't a vote after all.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.76.158.42 (talk) 06:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure. Thread migrated to Talk:Scott Prouty. –  SJ  +  20:17, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Pretty clear case of WP:BLP1E.  TB randley  23:29, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.