Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sea change (transformation)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:11, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Sea change (transformation)

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Only source is OED. No sources found discussing the term. Clearly WP:DICDEF. Deprodded as supposedly "controversial", but I'm not seeing it. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:55, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep - Some sources:
 * Rich and Strange: Gender, History, Modernism. pp. 3- (preview page 4 not shown in preview)
 * The Absent Shakespeare. pp. 131-132.
 * Complexity, Organizations and Change. pp. 61-62.
 * Data Protection: Governance, Risk Management, and Compliance. p. xx.
 * Complexity, Management and the Dynamics of Change: Challenges for Practice. p. 78.
 * A source stating the notion of sea change as a "positive transformation of one's way of living into something more rich and rewarding." However, it's a notion from the author of the book regarding the works of a composer/author of a television show titled "SeaChange": Macquarie Guide: HSC English Physical Journey
 * – NorthAmerica1000 21:22, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * (Struck the last source above, not enough depth-of-coverage). NorthAmerica1000 21:44, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * More sources that directly discuss Shakespeare's use of the term:
 * The Shakespeare Wars: Clashing Scholars, Public Fiascoes, Palace Coups. p. 509.
 * Shakespeare Survey, Volume 24. p. 106.
 * – NorthAmerica1000 22:23, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I think most of those are sources relating to Seachange (demography) - the idea expanded from the concept of moving from the city to the coast for a change of lifestyle. That concept has implications for telecommuting, demographic shifts, socio-economic imbalance, etc. It includes a not about the concept's relation to the television show mentioned (I think). Stalwart 111  21:41, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I think you added a couple of those while I was typing and it didn't edit-conflict. Yeah, there's some Shakespeare stuff there but is there enough to justify an article? Some seem to merge the demographic sea change with the Shakespearean concept of seachange. Maybe there's a place for both to ensure both are properly covered? Don't know. FYI, two of those sources are the same book reprinted under a different title (same author). Stalwart 111  21:48, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - These two sources are from the same author (McMillan), but the content is not entirely duplicative:, . Notice how the second one (Complexity, Organizations and Change) expounds upon the concept to include Dale's 1994 definition of a sea change, whereas the first one does not. NorthAmerica1000 22:40, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure, yeah, but then we can probably just use the expanded one - the other then doesn't add much, right? Either way, there doesn't seem to be a clear definition of the term in the Shakespearean sense - multiple reliable sources seem to have their own interpretation of what he meant and use it to mean "transformation" or "metamorphosis" or "broad change" or something else. That's fine, of course, but it doesn't provide much beyond a dictionary definition. There doesn't seem to be a lot of in-depth analysis of the term itself. More "this is what this means and this is how it applies to computers/organisational management/social change/etc". I'm really on the fence. I think there's a place for the article because it gives people a proper sense of where the phrase comes from. It has since been bastardised into a bunch of different contexts, thus Sea change (the disambiguation page). Few of those seem to relate to the "Shakespearean" definition so there is some value in providing some historical context. But the disparate interpretations in sources (with no real literary analysis) makes crafting a proper article difficult. I think the best source provided (in terms of analysis) is The Absent Shakespeare so nice work finding that one. I'm probably at weak keep at the moment. Stalwart 111  23:25, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. There's enough Shakespearean context provided in Sea change. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:30, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - In the Seachange (demography) article, there is exactly one sentence in the lead that states Shakespeare's use of the term. Compared to the depth of coverage in many of the sources above, I disagree that the amount in the demography article is adequate. The rest of the article focuses upon the demographic use of the term. NorthAmerica1000 23:36, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. There is significant coverage of "sea change" as (1) a demographic term, most notably in Australia (see the Seachange (demography) article), (2) a trope for modernism (discussed at length in this book, referenced in others), and (3) a business/marketing/PR buzzword (e.g., hereherehere and here). I think it would be reasonable to have one article on the term and all of these uses, similar to Potemkin village.  Gong   show  23:49, 17 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - Another source, from The New York Times:
 * – NorthAmerica1000 00:10, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:33, 25 March 2014 (UTC)




 * Merge to Sea change. In its current state, this falls far afoul of WP:NOTDICT - it can be adequately covered at the dab page. ansh 666 06:07, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:30, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep - Sources indicate it passes WP:WORDISSUBJECT, part of WP:NOTDIC -there is more coverage than simple dictionary stuff. -- cyclopia speak! 11:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.