Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seamus Ryan (photographer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. While there is a general keep feel to this the complete lack of clarity in the article between the two similarly named artists has compromised this discussion. Those who feel one (or both?) of these photographers are notable are encouraged to improve this article so its subject is clear as is the sourcing. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:21, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Seamus Ryan (photographer)

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The subject is clearly a skilled and successful portrait photographer, but after nine whole years in which the feeble article might have been strengthened, it's still feeble, perhaps because there's not much that can be added. (Aside, that is, from the obviously unsuitable.) Hoary (talk) 13:46, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. Hoary (talk) 13:53, 26 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Keep Pure advertising for a non-notable photographer. Due to the info about him having photos in the National Portrait Gallery definitely notable. Article needs a large update then to represent this. Canterbury Tail talk 15:06, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep he's got photos in the National Portrait Gallery, Museum of Fine Arts, Houston/, and the Worcester Art Museum, which I think is good enough for WP:Artist 4d.Jahaza (talk) 16:56, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment well that drastically changes things. Striking to keep then. I think having something in the NPR makes one notable. We should add such information to the article. Canterbury Tail talk 22:11, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , thank you for cutting junk from the article. You are of course very welcome to add information to it. (This might inspire you.) But first, do please read the attempted clarification that appears immediately below. -- Hoary (talk) 23:27, 26 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Attempted clarification: We're talking here about Seamus Ryan (seamus.co.uk). He's a commercial portrait photographer, who I think is based in London. Though I don't live in Britain and wouldn't recognize most British celebs, I do recognize the people in a number of his portraits: he's certainly photographed some famous people. I believe that he has won the Taylor Wessing prize, which is quite something. However, I have no reason to think that he is the same as Seamus A. Ryan (seamusryan.com), who is based in Tunbridge Wells, is also a commercial photographer, has done portraits, but bills himself as a "Fine Art Photographer and Photography Teacher" (so capitalized). Seamus A. Ryan says: "My work is [...] in the permanent collection of the Museum of Fine Art in Houston and the Worcester Museum of Fine Art." -- Hoary (talk) 23:01, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, our man is based in central London, and sounds interesting. But it seems less and less likely that he doubles as Seamus A. Ryan. -- Hoary (talk) 00:10, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Nice finds. Interesting. Canterbury Tail talk 12:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:11, 27 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete not enough reliable secondary indepdent 3rd party indepth sources to establish notablity.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:35, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:OUTCOMES and WP:CREATIVE. We have tended to keep artists whose work are in major world collections, regardless of other issues. If consensus has changed, I'd like to know about that and I would require a re-listing for clear word that consensus has changed. Bearian (talk) 21:25, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , WP:OUTCOMES is long and I confess that I haven't read it. But I have looked through its list of contents and I don't spot anything within this that's obviously relevant here. Could you please specify? As for WP:CREATIVE, this lists four criteria. I see no evidence of meeting any of the first three. The fourth itself has four criteria; and again, I see no evidence of meeting any of the first three. The fourth: "been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums"; well, he is represented within the permanent collection of one notable gallery (aka art museum). (I trust that nobody is still confusing him with Seamus A. Ryan.) What am I overlooking? -- Hoary (talk) 00:02, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , not for the first time, there's been confusion about two similarly-named artists. I don't know which is which. It's like that Internet meme of the two Spider Men. Bearian (talk) 16:22, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , I think it's pretty easy. Our man is based in London, doesn't put an "A." in his name, almost always works in colour, is a commercial (and sometimes noncommercial) portraitist, and has a prize-winning portrait of Stoppard in the NPG. The other one is based in Tunbridge Wells, always puts an "A." in his name, usually works in B/W, does little portraiture, teaches courses, has prints at MFAH and Worcester. Just look at their two websites: they're easy to tell apart. -- Hoary (talk) 21:20, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 14:47, 3 February 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  N0nsensical.system (err0r?)(.log) 09:37, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment. Let me recap. writes that "he's got photos in the National Portrait Gallery, Museum of Fine Arts, Houston/, and the Worcester Art Museum, which I think is good enough for WP:Artist 4d." Our man, Seamus Ryan (seamus.co.uk) has one photograph at the NPG. He describes himself: "He has worked on countless advertising campaigns, editorial commissions and theatre posters over a twenty year career." He adds "He has been awarded by the Association of Photographers and the Taylor Wessing Portrait Prize and has work in the permanent collection of the National Portrait Gallery." (No mention of MFAH or Worcester.) He's based in Shoreditch (central London). He's highly proficient, and the Wessing prize is an achievement -- but he doesn't meet WP:Artist 4d. There is also a Seamus A. Ryan (seamusryan.com). He describes himself as a "Fine Art Photographer and Photography Teacher". He adds "My work is in many private and corporate collections and in the permanent collection of the Museum of Fine Art in Houston and the Worcester Museum of Fine Art." (No mention of the NPG.) He's based in Tunbridge Wells The names of the two photographers are similar, but the risk of confusion is low, if one spends five minutes in each of the two websites. I invite Jahaza,  and  to do this. (And of course I am open to reasoned arguments that no, I have made some mistake, and the two subtly differing names, the two websites and the three museum holdings are after all of the same one person.) -- Hoary (talk) 10:08, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep. Now seems good. Hyperbolick (talk) 22:18, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete did we all forget about WP:V? Where are the sources to support the statements in the article? Are we just a resume hosting service now? Praxidicae (talk) 15:17, 21 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.