Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sebastian Reid


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. The argument that the role in an unreleased film will make him notable is not evidence thathe is notable now; no prejudice against recreation when reviews become available  DGG ( talk ) 01:58, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Sebastian Reid

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Minor actor lacking GHits and GNEWS of substance. Appears to fail WP:BIO and WP:ENT.  ttonyb (talk) 19:52, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. He is playing a major true-life part (Essex) opposite Vanessa Redgrave (Elizabeth I) in a major and much talked-about film coming out in January. Softlavender (talk) 00:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment – The film may be talked about, but it appears he is not. According to IMDB the role is far from a major part.  Please provide support for WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or WP:ENT.   ttonyb  (talk) 05:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's impossible to tell from IMDB what is a major or minor part, especially nowadays. The film is a political thriller about the Essex Rebellion, hence the part of Essex is major, and he goes head-to-head with Redgrave same as in other Essex/Elizabeth movies; it's a quite famous scenario. Softlavender (talk) 06:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - The film is not about the Essex Rebellion. It is a, "political thriller about who actually wrote the plays of William Shakespeare set against the backdrop of the succession of Queen Elizabeth I, and the Essex Rebellion against her."  The rebellion is only a backdrop.  Again, there is no indication he plays a major role.  Additionally, until the film is released, there is no guarantee his part will not end up on the cutting room floor.   ttonyb  (talk) 03:22, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - renders 13,400 Ghits and article, while in need of expansion, does assert notability. Wildhartlivie (talk) 05:39, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment – Please show me where the number of hits in Google establishes notability in either WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or WP:ENT. Asserting notability is not a reason to keep the article in a AfD.  Besides if you go the last page of the search you will see that there are only 225 hits for the individual's name in quotes.  A good deal of those hits are not even related to the person.   ttonyb  (talk) 05:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete Absolutely no evidence of meeting WP:ENT or otherwise being notable. The two above comments have not offered any valid reasons. -- Lord  Pistachio  talk 06:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - He is playing Essex in a movie about the Essex Rebellion, opposite Redgrave. Notable enough for these pages. It's a stub that needs expanding. Smatprt (talk) 07:24, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment – According to IMDB the role is far from a major part. Please provide support for WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or WP:ENT.  ttonyb (talk) 15:56, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's impossible to tell from IMDB what is a major or minor part, especially nowadays. The film is a political thriller about the Essex Rebellion, hence the part of Essex is major, and he goes head-to-head with Redgrave same as in other Essex/Elizabeth movies; it's a quite famous scenario. Softlavender (talk) 06:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - The film is not about the Essex Rebellion. It is a, "political thriller about who actually wrote the plays of William Shakespeare set against the backdrop of the succession of Queen Elizabeth I, and the Essex Rebellion against her."  The rebellion is only a backdrop.  Again, there is no indication he plays a major role.  Additionally, until the film is released, there is no guarantee his part will not end up on the cutting room floor.   ttonyb  (talk) 03:22, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You're quoting a Wikipedia article. The director Roland Emmerich says: "It's about who will succeed Elizabeth and the cause of that thriller, the Essex Rebellion." Softlavender (talk) 03:38, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment – Actually, IMDB. Since the film is not released there is no way to determine if he will be in the finished cut or the extent of his part.  ttonyb  (talk) 03:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * IMDB, like Wikipedia, is user-run. Plot summaries are submitted by anonymous users. The director's direct quote is a reliable source. Softlavender (talk) 03:49, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment – Again, since the film is not released there is no way to determine if he will even be in the finished cut or the extent of his part.  Notability is not based on something that has not as yet happened.  ttonyb  (talk) 15:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - Smatprt stole my thunder. --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   08:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment – According to IMDB the role is far from a major part. Please provide support for WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or WP:ENT.  ttonyb (talk) 15:56, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's impossible to tell from IMDB what is a major or minor part, especially nowadays. The film is a political thriller about the Essex Rebellion, hence the part of Essex is major, and he goes head-to-head with Redgrave same as in other Essex/Elizabeth movies; it's a quite famous scenario. Softlavender (talk) 06:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - The film is not about the Essex Rebellion. It is a, "political thriller about who actually wrote the plays of William Shakespeare set against the backdrop of the succession of Queen Elizabeth I, and the Essex Rebellion against her."  The rebellion is only a backdrop.  Again, there is no indication he plays a major role.  Additionally, until the film is released, there is no guarantee his part will not end up on the cutting room floor.   ttonyb  (talk) 03:22, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You're quoting a Wikipedia article. The director Roland Emmerich says: "It's about who will succeed Elizabeth and the cause of that thriller, the Essex Rebellion." Softlavender (talk) 03:38, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment – Actually, IMDB. Since the film is not released there is no way to determine if he will be in the finished cut or the extent of his part.  ttonyb  (talk) 03:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * IMDB, like Wikipedia, is user-run. Plot summaries are submitted by anonymous users. The director's direct quote is a reliable source. Softlavender (talk) 03:49, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment – Again, since the film is not released there is no way to determine if he will even be in the finished cut or the extent of his part. Notability is not based on something that has not as yet happened.  ttonyb  (talk) 15:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * comment I declined the speedy delete, because the text described parts that sounded reasonably significant. 10:14, 2 June 2010 (UTC) (Posted by User:Graeme Bartlett)
 * Comment: If the reason that this actor might be notable is that he is appearing in a not-yet released film, why not wait until the film is released before creating this article? What if the film is never released?  What if it has a very limited release and flops badly?  By the way, it appears clear that he is not "starring" in the film - he has a supporting role.  I see that the major references to the film do not even mention him, and our own article on Anonymous (film) makes him seem like a very minor character - the plot summary does not even mention the character.  The discussion of the film centers on its Oxfordian focus, not on Reid or his character.  Just some thoughts.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 13:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Because Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of information, and because people are coming to Wikipedia to read about this very controversial and much talked-about film, and because when they read the Major Cast list in the film's article, they want to know who these people are, especially who is playing Essex in a film about the Essex Rebellion. It's that simple. We don't want them to have to search around on Google; we want them to have the information onhand linked right there. To wait till the film screens is to negate the fact that this film has already generated a lot of buzz and interest, and a lot of controversy/discussion, negative and postive. Softlavender (talk) 03:36, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I disagree. First, Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of encyclopedic and notable information, not trivial information.  See WP:ENT.  Second, the film's aticle is the place to find out about the film.  By the way, the film does not even have a release scheduled; they hope it will come out in 2011.   Third, it does not appear that Essex is a major role in this film.  I don't believe that there is anything at all about this role in any WP:RS.  It is not that your readers need to search around on Google: you need to find the reliable sources for them and cite them.  We need to collect information from reliable sources.  You can't just speculate that you "know who these people are" based on other versions of the history.  You need actual facts from reliable sources about Reid.  Finally, even if this were a notable role in a film that will be notable, it's just one role.  I don't believe that every actor who ever had a role in a movie should have an article.  You can only write a good article about an actor who has a significant body of work that has been commented upon by major media.  See also WP:ENT.  All the best, -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:22, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - What a mess - regardless of his roles, there are not enough reliable sources, much less verifiable ones. Can someone fix the dead link to Imdb?  Add more sources? Bearian (talk) 20:39, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * IMDB link has been active from the very first iteration; article has been clean and straightforward from the beginning, never "a mess." Softlavender (talk) 09:16, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Smatprt. Evalpor (talk) 06:53, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. We have no idea whether the role is significant, the film may never be released, the actor's other credits seem to be all school theatre (even assuming that his online CV is true), and not one WP:reliable source has been given that contains any significant acting credit by this young actor other than his role in this unreleased film.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:43, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.