Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sebastian Siegel


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. After disregarding the sockpuppets, the consensus is fairly clear. Courcelles (talk) 03:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Sebastian Siegel

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Minor roles, directed a documentary, Love, Sex & Religion, also being added for AfD. Minor coverage with lots of IMDb and similar "sources". Both articles, and all links to them, created by the same SPA. SummerPhD (talk) 03:34, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:50, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment The references have been updated, supplemented and criteria met per section 1 on wikipedia's Notability page on Entertainers. (MediaMNG) 10:09 10 July 2010  —Preceding undated comment added 17:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC).


 * Comment The article needs a major sandblasting. The subject does have some coverage... but more for being a fitness guru than as a filmmaker or actor. Perhaps we can give it back to its author for a re-write and change of focus?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 02:54, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The creator of both articles (and all of the links to them) is a single purpose account (MediaMNG) who has yet to repond to anything on a talk page (including the deletion notices, deletion of several images and a COI tag. If yo can get a response, I'd have no objection to userfying it. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete, non-notable. FieldMarine (talk) 11:36, 7 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Thank you for the reference directions. I am the current account holder for (MediaMNG) and we have been responding by updating many of the link/footnotes to independent 3rd parties. Many of the links to the primary site actually demonstrate and/or link to independent 3rd party material, though since newer direct ones have been added we can delete some of these.  Imdb is a commonly used independent 3rd party, and widely accepted and discretionary reference.  There are additionally links to reviews which are often changing or less permanent which is why we've referenced imdb on several accounts (many of the references are to different pages on imdb though as well).

In the Notability page, under the Entertainers section, Sebastian Siegel has exceeded the defined terms on many accounts as being the following: "Actors, opinion makers, models, and television personalities: Having had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, or other productions." Lost, The Family that Preys, Reign of Fire, Family Guy, CSI Miami are some of the most successful tv/film productions, and particularly on Lost, The Family that Preys, and in the independent films, Atheist, In my Life, Indie is Great, his characters have been integral to driving the plots of these films or episodes. He is represented by one of the highest level management firms, Evolution, which also represent: Charlie Sheen, Lee Daniels, Kevin Dillon, Kelly LeBrock, Rick Fox (Notable entertainers, directors, actors).

As a filmmaker, his film, "Love, Sex & Religion" is confirmed on imdb and in photographs to have a growing "cast" list of vastly popular (and "Notable" by wikipedia standards) actors, personalities, scholars and public figures such as Ken Wilber, Taylor Dayne and James Whitmore.

As a model he has appeared on the covers of a greater variety of health/bodybuilding/fitness magazines (footnoted to 3rd party footage and documents) than almost anyone else (we multiply referenced to those covers), transcending that unique category with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Joe Weider - with an additional weight of notability being that he is an all natural athlete, and has shot significant campaigns with the most prolific artists in the adjacent industry of fashion.

As a personality he has played the lead roles in some of the most groundbreaking, successful, and widely seen comedic campaigns, from Green Tea Partay (footnoted) to Geico, all in collaboration with other Notable entertainers.

We will place the template at the top of the page for Love, Sex & Relgion and delete those aspects within the Sebastian Siegel page once it's no longer in discussion for deletion. We greatly appreciate the insight and are working to update per the notes. Thank you (MediaMNG) 14:23, 7 July 2010 — MediaMNG (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 21:45, 8 July 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elpuppy (talk • contribs)  — ElPuppy (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep Able to locate enough secondary sources to verify notable work in film and television. (ElPuppy)
 * Delete only minor roles, promo article, no substantial coverage in reliable sources - most video clip links constitute contributory copyright infringement per WP:ELNEVER (and Lost wikia is not a reliable source and a personal profile on Huffington Post is neither, etc.) Hekerui (talk) 14:13, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


 *  Keep  this article has now been extensively referenced. Of 39 total references now, only 7 references (#12,14, 21,22,25,28,37) are to the primary site about the individual.  12 is film footage not infringing copyright rules under SAG standard provisions (though it is to the site about the individual), 14 is embedded video to a talk show, 21 is a series of links to other references beyond Huffington Post, 22 could be deleted (though it does support Government and health references in the article), 25 links to a page that shows the individual on these major publications, 28 is the same so one of these should be deleted, 37 supports the film in reference with embedded video linked to a neutral party (the ONLY personal interview i.e., not on politics or acting, ever recorded by the late James Whitmore). (MediaMNG) 17:08, 9 July 2010 — MediaMNG (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * You've already !voted. You may continue to "comment", but you get one !vote. You are free to change your vote, but please do not duplicate it. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - Most of those sources are not reliable: youtube, IMDb, allmoviephoto, etc. don't make the grade. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:08, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 *  Keep  this article. Sebastian is well known throughout the fitness community as he has been on multiple magazine covers and has been featured on Bodybuilding.com. His work on Lost and The Family That Preys were significant and moved the story forward. Nothing on this page is inaccurate. If these sources are not acceptable, what would be? One could easily find these shows and films online or at a rental store and see for themselves if Sebastian's roles were noteworthy. I have personally gone through the sources in question and they are they are all on point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter midnight2000 (talk • contribs) 07:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)  — Peter midnight2000 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. (''User:Peter midnight2000 has been blocked as a sock of MediaMNG. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:44, 11 July 2010 (UTC))
 * Keep this article. While the article is well referenced anyone doubting the validity of the statements can see abundant additional supporting content with the most redumentary search including video clips from highly regulated network television. What could possibly be the motivation for questioning the legitimacy of this page? from the comments above is it possible that a single person can remove valid information and for what purpose? I think it would be helpful for SummerPhD to explain his/her rational here? how does (s)he know Mr. Seigel? what specifically are the factual objections? clearly this subject matter seems completely outside of the subject matter SummerPhD typicaly focuses on? why has summerPhD ignored the creator of the article's efforts to address comments in favor of such a draconian campaign to delete the page? Isn't the purporse of Wiki to share information rather than subtrefuse it? If these issues can not be addressed how can anyone vote to remove this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.42.198.108 (talk) 08:44, 10 July 2010 (UTC)  — 75.42.198.108 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment - The subject of the article is not notable unless and until he is the subject of significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Wikipedia reports on notable subjects by summarizing information from independent reliable sources (not IMDb, youtube, flickr, other wikis, etc.). If you feel that my edits or editing are questionable in any way, this is not the forum for that discussion, there are plenty of questionable edits in this discussion. Those edits/editor(s) should be handled through our dispute resolution procedures. - SummerPhD (talk) 11:29, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 *  Keep  this article. Sebastian has substantial industry credits and is well known in the Hollywood community. He portrayed a key role in Tyler Perry's The Family That Preys and appeared in two episodes of the Emmy Award-winning series Lost, not to mention countless fitness magazine covers. To delete this entry would be arbitrary and capricious. Thomdave (talk) 18:03, 10 July 2010 (UTC)thomdave — thomdave (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. (Thomdave has been blocked as a sock of MediaMNG. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:46, 11 July 2010 (UTC))
 * Comment - This page positively REEKS of socks. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and they're not at all subtle. I've wacked a few and semi'ed the page. Toddst1 (talk) 00:31, 11 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep I hadn't heard of him before this but enjoyed the opportunity. There seems good weight to support keeping it, and checking a few of the links proves there is a solid foundation here. JonnyQ123 (talk) 20:51, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - The "good weight" is from sock puppets of the COI account (your editing history is interesting). The links to IMDb, other wiki projects, youtube, flickr, etc. are worthless as far as notability goes. What substantial coverage in independent reliable sources have you found? - SummerPhD (talk) 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. On first impression, nicely made article (honed over three years), but refs are spammy and unreliable. Has done a fair bit of minor work but nothing that brings substantial coverage. SPA does not fill me with confidence. Christopher Connor (talk) 02:31, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.