Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sefin


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:26, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Sefin

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This 'person' is either extremely obscure or didn't exist at all. The only books I find that name her are from a single self-published author, so she may be his invention, or she may just be such an obscure figure that nobody else finds her worth mentioning. Her claim to notability seems to fail WP:NOTINHERITED, being based solely on who her grandson was (or who it claims she was grandmother of). That the article states that "Nothing is known of her except her place in the genealogies" speaks volumes as to her lack of notability, and even this is debatable, as Bartrum's compendium of early Welsh genealogies fails to mention her. She may be a moden invention created to link St. David genealogically to Brychan Brycheiniog, who is given as many almost 100 children in various sources and hence was a prime target for genealogical fabrication. I don't see how even an authentic Sefin could pass GNG, let alone a dubious one. Agricolae (talk) 21:55, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 21:59, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wales-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 21:59, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 22:00, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete - I don't think this is a hoax, and a possible destination for a merger would be Brychan, but I don't think that is correct. Google book search finds a result for Llansefin (Welsh for the Church of Sefin) (which sources say may also be called Llansemin) on River Sefin (also known as Afon Brân). Llansemin is mentioned in histories of Brychan . Perhaps some expert in orthography could find a cognate of Sefin or Semin or Sevin in the daughters of Brychan, but I don't see it. Smmurphy(Talk) 18:54, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 05:12, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment -- Sevin would be an anglicised spelling of Sefin and Semin would be cognate. Llansemin is named in Th. Jones, A History of the County of Brecknock which is an older standard county history (and thus a reputable source).  The author is clearly recounting something from some historical source.  His footnote suggests this may be identified with Llansevin, which would now be spelt Llansefin, following the current trend for Welsh (rather than anglicised) orthography.  He states this is in LLangattock, Cardiganshire.  The article on Brychan cites a lot of irreconcilable genealogical sources.  Neither the article on Saint Non, nor that on Saint David mention the relationship, though the sources on David's birth are from several hundred years later (not unusual).  The only thing that comes up on a search for Llansevin is Plas Glansevin in LLANGADOG, CARMARTHENSHIRE, which may be the place Jones meant.  The article currently has a stub tag, but clearly noting else is known (or knowable), so that the tag is an invite to OR.  My reaction is either to leave well alone or delete.  Not a WP hoax, but some kind of genealogical invention.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:24, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —MRD2014 talk contribs 01:28, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- I think that was the proper conclusion of my previous contribution. The alternative might be to merge and redirect to Nonna, who was supposedly her daughter.  Peterkingiron (talk) 13:43, 10 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.