Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seljuks in Dobruja


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Rather than "keep", considering that one "keep" opinion is qualified as weak, and the one by Esc2003 does not advance a policy-based argument.  Sandstein  20:41, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Seljuks in Dobruja

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This seems to be a fairly marginal topic, and any useful content, of which I can't tell if there's any, could easily be covered at Dobruja. Biruitorul Talk 01:39, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete This is about the passing presence of a population through a region that is now in Romania, and was then in Byzantine lands. Neither the Seljuks nor the Byzantines stayed as such: the Seljuks may be the ancestors of Gagauz people, who live further north and have since developed a distinct culture (as covered by our article on them) - incidentally, the article we're discussing seems to push that theory, which may or may not be accurate; the various stages of Islam in Dobruja are covered by Islam in Romania (which basically summarizes everything there is about the Seljuk stage); the Byzantine presence has been successively replaced by Ottoman, Russian, Romanian administrations - which is amply covered by our articles on Dobruja, Northern Dobruja etc. No reason to keep this article as such. Dahn (talk) 11:20, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 13:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 13:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions.  Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 14:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. The topic has certainly been researched in RSs and conflicting opinions exist about the veracity of the events. Yes, the events are summarily covered in Islam in Romania, Dobruja, and Sari Saltik, but this article could present a more detailed description, including background and aftermath. The title may need some change (I'm thinking something along the lines of Seljuk Colonisation in Dobruja). If consensus will decide on deletion, I hope the refs will be salvaged to the articles I've mentioned. Considering WP already has tons of articles that never were the subject of a scientific paper, I don't really see the need to delete an article on a topic that happens to be of actual scholar interest.Anonimu (talk) 22:02, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. Important issue for Gagauz history. Esc2003 (talk) 12:52, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep the information in a form or another, especially what is properly sourced. I am suggesting two options which are not mutually exclusive:
 * Rename to Turkic people in Dobruja (or even Turkic people in Romania) and treat this on a greater scale to include Avars, Pechenegs, Cumans, Bulgars, Tatars, Seljuks etc.
 * Merge what is relevant to Turks of Romania and/or Dobruja.--Codrin.B (talk) 14:57, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Codrin, I encourage you to look over Islam in Romania. As for "Turkic people" in Romania, that is a slippery slope to racialism: why not "Altaic people in Romania", or "Mongoloids in Romania"? Dahn (talk) 15:30, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Islam in Romania is a good alternative to the merge with the Turks of Romania. However I really don't like mixing people with religion. I know and understand your position on nationalism and racialism but I don't really see the slippery slope here and I don't think we should get scared so easily of such topics. It is just fine to have a scientific article and group people by origin. Romania is quite unique at having a lot of Turkic peoples migrating in at different times. For the same reason that the Turkic peoples article exists, we could have the regional Turkic people in Romania only because there is enough to write about. If well written, it could be quite useful, in my opinion. But I would certainly not suggest "Altaic people in Romania", or "Mongoloids in Romania".--Codrin.B (talk) 21:31, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep I am the creator of this article . The article is not about Dobruja nor the possible origin of Gagauz . It is about a mass migration to Romania much before Ottomans. A mass migration can't be considerd as being marginal. It is a notable topic and it is sourced. But I feel  that the rationale behind the delete proposal is the Aftermath section which relates these people to Gagauz. Actually this theory, which was proposed by Paul Wittek,  is one among the several theories of Gagauz origin. The Aftermath section can be reworded if desired. But the article as a whole  certainly deserves to be in Wikipedia. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 19:02, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.