Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seongha Jeong


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. No significant coverage in reliable sources has been demonstrated. Black Kite 21:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Seongha Jeong

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Delete. I looked up all of the information present; all of the sources either primary or just links to his YouTube videos. Outside of YouTube, there is nothing else about this kid. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:23, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note, this was a contested speedy and I was just pointed out to an appearance on the Seoul Broadcasting System channel, which can be seen at YouTube. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment and Delete - I nominated this article as a hoax initially because the revised romanization spelling of the name brought up no information. I have been talking back and forth on this article's talk page with the creator about this article, and have asked him on both the talk page and on his user talk page to read and provide evidence that this person meets the notability guidelines. Until this article does meet the notability guidelines, I would have to vote delete. Frmatt (talk) 06:29, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Not only is he just a YouTube "star", the article only lists where he is placed on YouTube's popularity charts, nothing really about him, his music or what he does, etc.  Eagles   24/7   (C)  06:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Seongha has won 12 site awards on YouTube, 6 of which are for first place. Who knows of a YouTube channel that has at least 12 awards, and/or at least 6 1st-place awards, that does not have a presence on Wikipedia? Moreover, he has over 90,000 Google hits, and appeared on a show segment on a channel of the Seoul Broadcasting System. Seongha has played in several major live concerts, one of which was this live concert for Mr. Big on October 24. --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 07:00, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. After I looked at the links again, after the SBS video, I noticed it was mostly blogs, facebook pages, (no wikipedia mirrors that I could find) or illegal file sharing sites that had videos or mp3 encodes of his videos. Other than that SBS clip, which looks like a Korean Star Search, I cannot find anything that makes him notable now. A few months down the road, maybe. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response No one has answered my question: What YouTube channel has at least 12 site awards, and/or 6 first-place awards, that doesn't have its own Wikipedia article? --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 08:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. The main focus of this deletion debate is the following; other than that one off appearance on SBS and having youtube clips, is there anything else that makes this guy famous? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 08:57, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I just found him on The New York Times! I dug this up after sifting through these 18 news articles and searching for the article titles and newspapers together. --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 09:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I am glad that you are so excited and want to make good contributions to the 'pedia. You also seem to have good searching skills (and a lot more patience than I do!)  Whatever happens with this article, I hope that you stay around and put your skills to work improving other articles! Frmatt (talk) 03:47, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I also agree. We are not trying to be harsh LUUSAP. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I also agree - you are exactly the kind of editor Wikipedia needs, so whatever the result of this AfD, please keep contributing! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 10:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * comment Hello, I'm an user from korean wikipedia. There are a lot of news which introduce and mention Seongha Jeong from press outside youtube like korea's big portal naver news search. And I show you google search result when I search with his hangul name. Also, this article needs to move to Jung Seongha in accordance with the naming policy of Korean person name order on the wikipedia. --122.35.109.196 (talk) 00:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * These are almost like search results for his videos. I tried to use his Korean name before and I did not find much. If the article is kept, then it will be moved to match policy. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The first link(news from naver news search) above is not about video search results but news from Korean press. I wonder when you searched him in the website you tried to use his correct Korean name 정성하 (cation : his Korean name is not 성하정. 정(Jung) is his surname.)--122.35.109.196 (talk) 03:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, then expand the article with the Korean sources. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 03:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. OH MY GOD!!! 12 AWARDS ON YOUTUBE!!! WOW!!! He won 12 fake awards, none of which matter. Lets look at some of these awards, shall we? "#10 - Most Viewed (Today) - Musicians - South Korea", for example. So he's a slightly popular member of a popular category that covers a tiny section of the world, and was popular for an entire day? WOW. The references are almost all unreliable, and this article does not pass WP:MUSIC. Ironholds (talk) 08:14, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response. Four of his All-Time awards are for the #1 spot. --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 08:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment I will be looking at this article and sources later today when I have the time to do it properly, but I will say that if the Awards were from a reliable source like a highly-respected national or international music organisation or newspaper/magazine, it might be worth making that argument, but YouTube is not counted as a reliable source. Having 12 awards on a non-reliable site is not a sign of notability. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 10:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me clarify: YouTube on its own is not reliable enough as a main source of information about a subject, as it is effectively self-published. It has a use as a 'back-up' source for information from a highly-regarded reliable source. On YouTube, anyone can upload anything - there is no verification that the footage is original and unedited. I could download one of Jeong's videos, edit it, and re-upload it - how is that reliable? I have no objection to the use of YouTube footage, but it should not be used as a primary indicator of notability. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 11:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * comment There are multiple concerns with this article (see WP:ELNO for one) but the most important thing is making sure notability is established and verifiable. Notability (people) needs to be reviewed. Coverage from independent and reliable sources need to be provided. Use the and find the original versions. Double check to see if they are WP:RELIABLE and then use them as inline citations. Ignore Youtube and ignore his website as the sole basis for notability. These are not sufficient to establish notability on their own. However, significant coverage of these by reputable media will be good. I looked up the NY Times source and it might be OK. It is by the "TV critic for the Arts section of The Times". The  Seoul Broadcasting System source might be OK with a Template:Cite episode but if it is just a Star Search like program much more will be needed. Also, take  a look at WP:NONENG if you use Korean sources. Google news was not much help so 122.35.109.196 might have a point.  Cptnono (talk) 10:04, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Follow up:
 * "Blogs" can be used if selected properly. "Some newspapers host interactive columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." - Biographies of living persons and "Note that otherwise reliable news sources--for example, the website of a major news organization--that happens to publish in a "blog" style format for some or all of its content may be considered to be equally reliable as if it were published in a more 'traditional' 20th-century format of a classic news story." - Reliable sources (read the other info in those sections as well since opnions need to be handled with caution .)
 * is from Metro International. Nanok Bie seems to be their tech editorial guy. Take a look at all of the links at . Also, Google translate will be needed for review since these are in Swedish.
 * is from New York Times (mentioned above). She is a critic for the paper and info can be found at The New York Times or Virginia Heffernan. <-- By the way: We should get an image on her Wikipedia article
 * I'll poke around more but these were the first to jump out. General notability guidelines (again: see the basic criteria) since Internet celebrities do not have special criteria and the subject does not meet that for musicians. Cptnono (talk) 11:03, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind "Posts left by readers may never be used as sources." per Biographies of living persons. Some of the news hits seem to be comments. A couple are good, though. I am curious to see the media coverage from Seoul since that might be the deciding factor. Cptnono (talk) 11:36, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete fail WP:MUSIC, WP:BIO - won some quite easy to manipulate youtube awards - big deal. --Cameron Scott (talk) 10:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response What has at least 280,000 hits, and does not have a Wikipedia article? --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 10:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Quick comment I just typed in my real name into Google, and I got over 600,000 hits. Do I have a Wikipedia article? No.  Eagles   24/7   (C)  20:10, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you conduct an "exact phrase" search by quoting it? --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 00:09, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoops, nevermind then. Sorry about that.  Eagles   24/7   (C)  01:39, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * LUUSAP: Take a step back and look at the wikilinks provided please. Google hits do not equal notability. Google news or scholar hits do. Also, other stuff exists is wikilinked for you above as well. Stop debating and start fixing and this might be possible.Cptnono (talk) 10:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Captain Nono, did you see the findsources links on his Hangeul form of his name? There are 40 Google News hits through a search of 정성하. --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 10:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * LUUSAP, can you add some of those references to the article? I'm only half paying attention to Wikipedia, as the kids are around (!), so I'll be looking at this later when I can spend the time to give it justice. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 10:53, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 40 sounds good. Keep in mind that sometimes these are not actually "news". Common sense and adhearance to the guidelines are still needed when reviewing but it is a great way to cut out the garbage. I cannot do Hangeul since I do not have the fonts installed. Provide some links and I will see what I see by pasting them into translate.Cptnono (talk) 11:07, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete It appears to me that the mentions in the media do not amount to significant coverage, as required by the notability guidelines. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 20:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response Where does an imaginary boundary line demarcate between "significant," and insignificant coverage? --129.130.238.182 (talk) 03:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Significant coverage means that sources address the subject directly in detail, and no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material. - WP:GNGCptnono (talk) 03:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom and PhantomSteve. YouTube awards do not confer sufficient notability. Glass  Cobra  04:45, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Message for 70.179.165.153 and LUUSAP: You asked for a citation for the fact that YouTube does not establish notability - could you please leave a message here explaining under what section of the Reliable Sources guidelines you believe that YouTube *does*? YouTube is an unmoderated site, where anyone can upload anything. Does YouTube verify content? No. They don't even verify copyright status - videos are removed when they receive a request from the copyright owner (or from other users who report it). The guidelines say Reliable sources are credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand.. How does YouTube match up to this? I am removing both of the 'citations needed' that were added above, as I believe that this quote is the citation you require. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 08:08, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.