Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seoul International Darts League


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was speedy delete all. — Nearly Headless Nick   {C}  07:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Seoul International Darts League

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Nonnotable pub darts league in Seoul, South Korea. No independent sources showing any notability. Also including all the teams in the league (listed below). NawlinWiki 15:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC) Also including:
 * Take it Easy Darts Team
 * Cake Mix Darts Team
 * Eberhardt Darts Team
 * Alley Ratz
 * Foxes 'n' Hounds
 * BlessU Survivors
 * Blessed Bulls
 * Comment The use of the word "pub" here is unnecessary. Darts is almost always played in pubs.  The use of the word here appears to be to win over opinion by attempting to lessen readers' impression of the league from the outset.  I request its removal.  I also request definition of "notable" and "nonnotable".JPBarrass 16:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Response: Request denied. The league plays in pubs. As for the definition of "notable," that is clearly spelled out at Wikipedia notability standards. Realkyhick 17:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Request resubmitted! The definition of notability has already been cleared up below, so quite why this has been brought up again here I don't know.  As for the "pub" part, as I said, almost all darts leagues are in pubs.  Therefore, you have used loaded language.JPBarrass 17:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I brought up notability up here again because you requested the definition up here — again. The league plays in pubs, and that is relevant. Realkyhick 17:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find that I requested the definition here 3 minutes before I did to another user below, but that's irrelevant, almost as irrelevant as the premises in which the matches are played, in fact.JPBarrass 17:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Many of these are now tagged for speedy deletion. A speedy a7 seems fine to me, but I wanted to get a 2nd opinion. NawlinWiki 15:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Many of these are now tagged for speedy deletion. A speedy a7 seems fine to me, but I wanted to get a 2nd opinion. NawlinWiki 15:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete all. It's a local darts league, nothing more. No relevant Google hits from independent sources, just their own site and links to it they have posted on other sites. I think NawlinWiki and I were stepping over each other here, with him posting AfD notices and me posting speedy tags. Realkyhick 15:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Notability, advert, etc. They also like to remove the tags I noticed, which isn't a reason but it is a bad habit.  Pharmboy 16:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Pharmboy, I'm not sure how you thought I could be accusing you of racism. That seems like quite a leap of imagination, to be honest!  I'm not sure where you're going with that one, so I'll leave it.  I just meant that "they" implied that the committee or indeed the entire league was removing your tags!  Anyway, that's irrelevant.  Thank you for putting the link to the notability guidelines on this page.  I have read them and now believe more firmly that it is indeed notable, as it qualifies on every point.  I have read of the league many times in independent printed media and will find details of these in the coming days and append them to the article page.  Like you, I was unable to find links through Google, but I will find these printed materials and put details on the page soon.
 * Interesting use of the word "they", Pharmboy.JPBarrass 16:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC) Also, interesting use of "nothing more", NawlinWiki. What would constitute "more"? On another note, I took offence to how my writing which I'm sure you can see took a great deal of time has just been slapped with these notices without a single note in any discussion page, be that my own page or the pages noted above.  That seems extremely impolite to me.  Now then, I responded saying things such as "Grow up.", which had a cooler head prevailed, I would not have done, so I apologise for that, but I still feel affronted by this sudden combardment of notes saying all my efforts are pointless.  There is a point to this and this is that though it is admittably a small league when compared with great things like the Premier League, it still has a following in much the same manner and means a lot to many people, which I feel warrants its existence here in precisely the same manner as Manchester United's page warrants its own existence, though, as I said, on a smaller scale.  A proper discussion on this would be much appreciated, as would putting a hold on any rash actions.JPBarrass 16:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete all. No evidence whatsoever of notability. -- Finngall  talk  16:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Define "notability".JPBarrass 16:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Notability is readily defined at length at this article: Wikpedia notability standards. Realkyhick 16:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment "They" because I didn't verify that it was a single person, and I certainly hope you aren't claiming racism or bad faith. Tagging your articles isn't an attack on the content, you, the league or darts.  It isn't personal, it is just at least a few people think the articles are not "encyclopedia material" or that the league is not "notable" under WIKIPEDIA's policy, not your or my personal opinions.  I would suggest reading WP:notability before arguing your case.  Pharmboy 16:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's another tack. Look at another of the pages I have created: Pungdeokcheon.  Now it's just a stub, but is it nonnotable? I suspect not, but why not? You didn't know anything about it, but neither did you know anything about this.  Why is it different for a piddly little river than for a league with hundreds of players and followers?JPBarrass 16:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You might want to look at WP:OTHERSTUFF. NawlinWiki 16:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Notability standards are different for geographical locations, which have been established for many, many years. In this case, a Google search found many more hits for that word than for the darts league. Sports leagues come and go. Waterways generally don't. Realkyhick 16:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You are right: they do. However, it has come. If, through some future misfortune, it goes, then so may the page if Wikipedians so agree at that time.JPBarrass 16:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Pharmboy, I'm not sure how you thought I could be accusing you of racism. That seems like quite a leap of imagination, to be honest!  I'm not sure where you're going with that one, so I'll leave it.  I just meant that "they" implied that the committee or indeed the entire league was removing your tags!  Anyway, that's irrelevant.  Thank you for putting the link to the notability guidelines on this page.  I have read them and now believe more firmly that it is indeed notable, as it qualifies on every point.  I have read of the league many times in independent printed media and will find details of these in the coming days and append them to the article page.  Like you, I was unable to find links through Google, but I will find these printed materials and put details on the page soon.JPBarrass 16:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There is some stuff online, too:
 * Thailand Dart Association: http://www.tdadarts.com/index.php?option=com_bookmarks&task=order&Itemid=1&mode=1&catid=-1&orderbycol=title&orderbyupdown=asc&search=s
 * Korean Dart Association: http://www.darts.or.kr/zeroboard/zboard.php?id=f_board&page=7&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=44&PHPSESSID=636facac18adfeb123e26c5d0dad8672 (in Korean)JPBarrass 17:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The link in Korean is of no help at all (this is English Wikipedia, after all). The other link simply shows a message that someone from the SIDL evidently posted, as it seeks to recruit: "...We welcome all players", and then merely links to the SIDL web site. That is not a reliable source. Realkyhick 17:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are right. As I acknowledged, it is difficult to find verifiable media online.  I will be able to find verifiable media in print, however, though that would I am sure be more easily verifiable in Korea than outside.JPBarrass 17:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete All For the same reason I can't have a wiki article about my Office Fantasy Football League, not notable. Helmsb 17:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You might want to look at WP:OTHERSTUFF. And anyway, I've just told everyone on here that it is indeed notable as defined by Wikipedia and that evidence to such effect will be posted on here in the coming days. Please read what has been discussed before you enter the argument!JPBarrass 17:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not sure what your argument is with WP:OTHERSTUFF, I will agree that there are articles on Wikipedia of questionable notability but most will eventually be tagged for deletion or have been tagged for deletion. As WP:OTHERSTUFF states just because these articles exist, new articles do not automatically inherit this false notability. Helmsb 17:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No no no, you totally missed the point there. It was ironic. Scroll up and you'll see that another user suggested that I read it. Well I did, and it taught me that using another concept or article as reason doesn't suffice, and then when you did that, I just copied and pasted what was there, thereby providing a little light entertainment, but I guess it went over your head on that occasion. JPBarrass 17:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete all per A7. It's all been said.  I wonder what's going on with the User:Jpbarrass account... looking into past contributions it seems to be a good-faith contributor with a number of helpful edits going back several months, but the last few days... well, just look at it: hopelessly unencyclopedic stuff like pub darts teams and borderline attacks/silliness (see his messages on User_talk:Realkyhick).  There's no way to prove it, but this sort of situation where a good Dr. Jeckyll account suddenly becomes a terrible Mr. Hyde might indicate someone hacked his account as a prank and is now running amok with it.  In any case, definitely speedy delete the articles as textbook A7 material. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  18:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the notes about my past contributions. There's no Jekyll/Hyde going on, though.  As I mentioned, I just felt extremely affronted at this bombardment of calls for pages to be deleted from several users all simultaneously (which I still find odd, since several of those pages had been online for days, yet the first to be put up for deletion had been there for mere seconds).  I think it would have been far more polite to have raised the issue on the discussion page first, since I had spent hours doing the pages.  In that heat, I made the comments to which you refer and for which I have since apologised (see above).
 * Delete all. I admire the design, but I see no notability. --Bobak 19:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * References - Added as promised. See article page. I trust this will satisfy the notability requirements.JPBarrass 06:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not nearly specific enough. Please read WP:CITE. Realkyhick 06:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Importance - As per the A7 rule, it states clearly that an article "that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject" should be deleted. I accept that the article as yet does not do this, though I must point out that I myself have stated it in this discussion and I will state it once again.  Though this league is not important internationally, it is important in Seoul, which I'm sure you will agree is a pretty significant city internationally - on a par with London, I'd say.  To a great many people therein, it is both important and significant, thus satisfying the A7 rule.  I believe that this, along with my previous comment relating to references, satisfies all complaints made about these articles thus far. JPBarrass 06:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.