Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seppala Siberian Sleddog (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Siberian Husky. Eddie891 Talk Work 18:02, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Seppala Siberian Sleddog
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails GNG. This appears to be a strain of Siberian Huskies purportedly descended from Leonhard Seppala’s dog Togo, but I can find no attributable reliable sources about them to establish their notability. Of the five books listed in the reference section: The article also cites the International Seppala Siberian Sleddog Club, clearly not independent of the subject.
 * three are self published from authors with no known subject matter expertise so should be considered unreliable (Jeffery J. Bragg is a breeder of these dogs )
 * one is a book about Leonhard Seppala, Ricker, I cannot find a copy to verify what it says, but it was published nine years before this line of dogs was supposed to have been founded so I think it’s safe to assume it doesn’t mention them
 * the last, Willett, was published by Heritage North Press website run by Rick & Barb Petura, who appear to have only published a newsletter and six books (all about sleddogs) over a fourteen year period, this being one of only two works published by them not written by the publishers themselves (the other a picture book), so its reliability has to be questioned.

The last AfD seems to have been contested based upon this existence of this webpage, I can find nothing to establish the author as a subject matter expert and the website appears to be either a WP:SPS, WP:UGC or at best a content farm and so it should not be considered reliable.

Further, Google news throws up a few stories of a woman in Maine using a sleddog team which includes some of these dogs example, but none provide WP:SIGCOV of these dogs, just a mere mention. Cavalryman (talk) 00:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 00:36, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 00:37, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Selective merge to Togo (dog). This is more of a lineage than a breed, without official recognition or independent coverage. Reywas92Talk 00:46, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Using what as the source? None of the verifiable sources (putting aside reliability) mention Togo, just the uncited claims in the article. Cavalryman (talk) 00:58, 3 February 2021 (UTC).


 * Redirect to Siberian Husky, of which this apparently a line or strain (or perhaps just a brand-name created to make capital from the the name of a famous man). Not one word of independently-sourced content in our page, so nothing to merge. No verifiable reliable coverage on Gbooks, no meaningful coverage on Scholar. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:22, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect or Delete- has no significant coverage or reliable sources. --SilverTiger12 (talk) 18:38, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Siberian Husky. In this way, search engines can find Seppala Siberian Sleddog on Wikipedia and a reader will be redirected to SH. William Harris (talk) 08:17, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Siberian Husky with a section on that article on this breed/bloodline. The Seppala and its place in the SH genome is highly controversial in dog sledding circles and its nature is debated widely, but its place in sled dog history is important. I am happy to spearhead this section on the SH article. Mcfuggins (talk) 15:08, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I also would like to point out that the Contenental Kennel Club DOES recognize the Seppala Siberian as an official breed: https://ckcusa.com/miscellaneous/seppala-siberian-sleddog-registration/, https://ckcusa.com/breeds/seppala-siberian-sleddog/ - I do feel that this could be grounds to preserve this article, and am happy to provide sources to this end. Mcfuggins (talk) 15:28, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello Mcfuggins, unfortunately the Contenental Kennel Club itself is not notable and so it cannot be used as a (primary) source for any included information. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 16:54, 4 February 2021 (UTC).
 * I'm new to this process, so forgive me, but I would like to understand why this is the case? As a canine kennel club, should they not be considered an internal expert on dog breeds? I struggle to see how they are "less notable" from a research standpoint than the AKC or others, other than in monetary resources and public recognition? Mcfuggins (talk) 19:52, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * For an topic to be considered notable enough for an independent article on Wikipedia, it should have received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject (see WP:GNG); I can find no independent reliable sources that corroborate what the Continental Kennel Club purports to be, therefore it is not suitable to state on the encyclopedia this line of dogs is recognised as a breed by that organisation. If we don't adhere to these standards, anyone can create a glossy website that makes up claims and we soon find ourselves including hoaxes on the encyclopedia.
 * Further, a review of the Continental Kennel Club's website suggests they make a lot of their money by promoting "new" or "emerging" breeds and giving them some kind of legitimacy, allowing breeders to better market and make money from the sale of their dogs; we are not here to promote people's businesses (see WP:PROMO).
 * If (when) a reliable source independent of these dogs becomes available, it can be used to cite its existence on the Siberian Husky page (assuming this discussion is closed redirecting the article to that page); if multiple such sources emerge that provide significant coverage (see WP:SIGCOV) then the article can be recreated, using only information cited to those reliable sources (see WP:NOR). If sufficient reliable, independent sources emerge confirming the Continental Kennel Club is a reputable kennel club then their recognition of the line as a breed can also be cited on the encyclopedia, but until then their recognition is not something that should be included anywhere on Wikipedia. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 23:03, 4 February 2021 (UTC).


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.