Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SerenityOS


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was move to draft. Spartaz Humbug! 23:15, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

SerenityOS

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

I find no mention of it anywhere as being a legitimate Operating System. It seems to be a hobby project on github. MistyGraceWhite (talk) 12:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

The SerenityOS has many contributors and although it is not an Operating System used by thousands, it does include all the features of an operating system. What you might consider legitimate is completely subjective. There is definitely interest in this operating system. People other than the original creator have added a disassembler, a debuggger, and a web browser to it. Mind you these are not port or copying existing code, rather original code of an entirely new web browser, and an entirely javascript engine all from scratch. This no small feat and at this point in time the number of devs working on this project is more than a couple people as a hobby. Even this article which has exists for less than 1 hour has already been translated to German. Sysrpl (talk) 13:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

TempleOS is not a proper OS too, but it has its own Wikipedia article and there's no issue with that, it seems. SerenityOS has contributors, funding, information, quick availability (installing it and running a dev-build is easy) and it has a awful lot of more features. It can already be used for quite a lot of stuff. I do believe it's a legitimate OS. Also active in development and growing fast. Zlotny (talk) 13:25, 1 May 2020 (UTC) — Zlotny (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * @ User:Sysrpl I find this quick translation to spanish to be very suspiciuos. How did a dormant account with 2 edits find this article within 30 minutes of its creation and translated it as well in that time. After which he goes dormant once again. There are no Reliable sources that discuss this project or OS as you call it, in depth. No sources, no article. Other stuff exists is not a valid rationale for inclusion. MistyGraceWhite (talk) 13:28, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * @ User:MistyGraceWhite Because I have an interest is software development and wrote the article then posted the link to the article to the SerenityOS community. This was before you started the AfD. I guess people are interested enough to post here about it. Do you think my secret plan was to create this wikipedia account 10+ years ago for the purpose of being a sock puppet? Sysrpl (talk) 13:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * @ MistyGraceWhite I'm an active developer on the Operating System along with other dozens of people and it reached to me that a wiki page was written. So i searched for it, found it, and translated. While I was doing that it got marked for deletion, which later brought me here. Also, a "dormant" account is not a valid one to contribute to wikipedia? I'm not active here but I don't think that's a valid reason to see an article creation/translation/edit sketchy. Zlotny (talk) 13:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * @ User:MistyGraceWhite Regarding no reliable sources that discuss this project, it is regularly featured on ycombinator, and also has many articles written about it on the web here and here https://hackaday.com/tag/serenityos/ https://hackersonlineclub.com/serenity-graphical-unix-like-operating-system/ ... i can find articles all over. Does it have to come from forbes.com to reach your level of   notability? Sysrpl (talk) 13:40, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Building an operating system and all its related components from scratch is a monumental effort, and I believe it shows best on Andreas's YouTube page: Despite producing rather niche content appealing only to a rather small subset of programmers interested in OS level development projects like this, Andreas has managed to amass over 7200 subscribers and over 480,000 cumulative views on his YouTube channel. These really are significant figures for a 'hobby project'. Andreas has also stated his intention to eventually work on SerenityOS full time, once the project reaches a sufficient level of funding. He currently has 63 people sponsoring him with monthly contributions on the GitHub Sponsors program, in addition to the 113 Patrons on Patreon. I would argue that this level of financial support from this many people alone should be rather telling about just the level of excitement this project has brought to so many people around the world. Instead of deletion, I would propose that more citations are added to the page, as it seems to be lacking in that respect. vkoskiv (talk) 16:37, 1 May 2020 (UTC) — vkoskiv (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * @ vkoskiv I don't think linking to a Patreon donation page is appropriate. The SerenityOS article can be improved upon in many ways, but linking to donations should not be one of them Sysrpl (talk) 13:45, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * @ Sysrpl I wasn't suggesting that the citations I provided here should be added to the actual article. I was just citing them here to provide evidence of the significance of this project. If you feel that it's inappropriate to cite them even here, then that's fair and they should be removed. vkoskiv (talk) 13:48, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * @ Sysrpl Can you explain how you knew that the article had been translated to german at 13:07 when the german version went live at 16:27? MistyGraceWhite (talk) 18:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * @ User:MistyGraceWhite I actually misspoke and meant to type Spanish. If someone already translated it to German, in addition to Spanish, then that only goes to show there are a lot of people who care enough about SerenityOS to translate it. And I don't speak or write German. Sysrpl (talk) 21:31, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * @ User:MistyGraceWhite I am sure there might be some suspicion of 'sockpuppetry' going on from your perspective, perhaps reasonably so. What's going on is that multiple independent observers of this project are just excited that there is a page on Wikipedia being made. There has been a lot of talk today on the public #serenityos IRC channel on the FreeNode network about this, and that's why you are seeing so much activity here all of a sudden. I can vouch that all the people here, myself included, are just passionate about the project and want to share it with the world. Hopefully this explanation clears any potential suspicion. Vkoskiv (talk) 21:40, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete based on currently available coverage. None of the discursiveness above makes up for the fundamental point that there is not sufficient reliable, substantial coverage. Admittedly it's not far off - one or two serious treatments by the non-blogosphere, I'd say - but not with what's presented at this point. And seeing how involved the editor is with the project, I suspect that the sources collected now already represent the totality of what is available. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 20:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep I, the editor, am not involved with the project. I write a lot of software, like many other people online, but have not contributed to the SerenityOS project at all other than writing the first draft of the article. I have no vested interest. I am aware of it, like many others, but that and the fact that I develop software does not automatically connect people to every software project on the Internet. Regarding awareness of this project, it frequently tops the news list on Y Combinator. There are many pages on the web that discuss the project, and your suspicion that all the current references represent the totality of what is available is easily proved  Sysrpl (talk) 21:19, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * That is not a "substantial treatment", it's a minimalist listing. Sources of this type are functionally useless for establishing notability. If there is better stuff (you know, actual articles where people discuss it in detail), please let's have them. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep It is a significant project with a significant following, and growing rapidly. If it is not "notable" enough for a Wikipedia article now, it very likely will be in a very short amount of time. I believe it makes most sense to keep this page. Vkoskiv (talk) 21:24, 1 May 2020 (UTC) — Vkoskiv (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Sorry, not a valid consideration at all - see WP:CRYSTAL. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep I agree with Vkoskiv, despite being a somewhat niche topic there's a rising interest in the project: 50 individual contributors in the past month alone (https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pulse/monthly), that's much more than one guy's hobby project. Linusgroh (talk) 21:34, 1 May 2020 (UTC) — Linusgroh (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Not a valid argument; sources or no go. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:38, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * @ User:Elmidae What part of that argument was 'invalid'? A source was provided as a link in the comment you replied to. 50 individual contributors to a hobby project on GitHub is significant.Vkoskiv (talk) 00:44, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Not from the perspective of Wikipedia's requirements for demonstrated notability. The fundamental statement is this: If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list. 5 million views on YouTube do not make a song notable if the in-depth coverage is not there. Similarly, X number of commits or contributors on Github just do not figure into the decision. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 01:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello folks, I am the principal author of SerenityOS. I'm not here to vote or interfere with your process, but I thought I could add some sources that haven't been mentioned, since you were requesting those. Here's an article about the system published in "Tivi", a Finnish magazine for IT professionals: https://www.tivi.fi/uutiset/ohjelmoija-kehitti-clla-uuden-kayttojarjestelman-joka-jaljittelee-1990-lukua/4c5511d2-0dc5-4a0a-a0b6-ec6d12f83b7c . There has also been some coverage on blogs like OSNews.com: https://www.osnews.com/story/129716/serenity-a-new-unix-like-operating-system/ and https://www.osnews.com/story/130750/serenityos-from-zero-to-html-in-a-year/ . Also that "hackersonlineclub" blog someone mentioned is auto-generated blogspam and should be disregarded. Sorry about complete unfamiliarity with wiki formatting. Awesomekling (talk) 22:15, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The Finnish article looks good. This is the level of coverage that works. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 01:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sulfurboy (talk) 14:58, 8 May 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete not a notable software product, and apparent WP:COI issues. ST47 (talk) 20:26, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, coverage is not sufficient to meet GNG, there is one possible good source, but unfortunately that is not enough to establish notability. There is a possible COI or WP:UPE motive in the article's creation, and there is almost certainly one along with Sockpuppeteering in the Keep votes. Devonian Wombat (talk) 01:48, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   14:42, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete and Draftify Starting to pick up some coverage, but it is very limited and subject specific. Awesomekling, If this got 1 good source like a wired article then put together with the existing sources it would pass WP:GNG. If this is a work in progress then it could recieve more coverage as it develops and picks up users, then an article could be justified. Move it to draft space until this happens. AlessandroTiandelli333 (talk) 17:33, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Draftify per WP:NOTJUSTYET - looks like it could have potential in the future for an article, but I'm unconvinced that significant reliable independent sources exist at present for anything beyond an article consistent of "this thing exists". Naypta ☺ &#124; ✉ talk page &#124; 20:00, 24 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


 * Delete. This is still not a relevant project and does not have any media coverage. --Gellopai (talk) 12:27, 21 December 2020 (UTC)