Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sergej Grecicho


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Daniel (talk) 00:59, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Sergej Grecicho

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:MMABIO as he does not have 3 fights in a top tier promotion, nor has he been ranked inside the featherweight top 10 by sherdog or fightmatrix. Also fails WP:GNG as his main coverage is through routine sporting reports.  ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 09:26, 28 November 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  11:25, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions.  ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 09:26, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lithuania-related deletion discussions.  ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 09:26, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 10:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep It's true he's not WP notable as an MMA fighter, but he is a six time medalist at the combat sambo world championships with three of those medals being gold. That seems to meet the general notability criteria at both WP:NSPORTS and WP:MANOTE.  If that isn't competing successfully at the highest level of his sport, then I don't know what it would take.  I suspect if we could access, and read, them that there would be plenty of sources in Lithuanian and likely Russian as well to show WP:GNG is met. Papaursa (talk) 02:23, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete . Like the nom, I could not find anything beyond routine results. GNG is all that matters here as NSPORT is explicitly subordinate to GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * If you only searched English sources, I am not surprised you didn't find significant coverage for a Lithuanian fighter who started winning medals almost 15 years ago in Europe. As I said, if I could access and read Lithuanian and Russian sources I'm pretty sure significant coverage would be found.  Sambo is not a big sport in English speaking countries, but it is in Europe (especially in areas east of the old Iron Curtain).  That said, 80 countries competed at the event where he won his last medal so much of the world was represented even if American papers didn't cover it.  If an American or Western European had won these titles, he'd undoubtedly be considered WP notable.  When the achievement can be documented, I hate to introduce a bias against non-Anglo competitors. Papaursa (talk) 23:48, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I did search in Cyrillic -- Сергей Гречихо or Сергея Гречихо -- and Lithuanian -- Sergejus Grečikho -- but a news search from 2012 on only returned 1, 2 (reprinted several places), and 3. All of these are mere name-drops. JoelleJay (talk) 16:50, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your efforts, though I question your Lithuanian conversion since my search on that version returned zero google hits and it seems unlikely that a world champion would receive no coverage in his homeland, but be covered extensively in Russia. However, I did find over 500 hits using "Сергей Гречихо" and са́мбо (which is Cyrillic for sambo).  Just from the first page I found  which covers the ceremony given by the mayor of Vilnius honoring Grecicho,  mentions his three world championships,  is an interview describing a stunning come from behind victory,  is an article talking about his switch from sambo to MMA, and  calls him a three time world champion in combat sambo, a world champion in pankration, and runner-up at the European BJJ championships.  Even without anything from his home country I think a good case can be made for his WP notability. Papaursa (talk) 21:18, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I also didn't get hits with the Lithuanian transliteration; I assume he's just Sergey or Sergei Grechikho there. I'm not convinced any of those new sources demonstrate SIGCOV.

[1] is not significant coverage, all it says about him is: Congratulated the multiple champion of Lithuania, world champion and European champion 2012 Sergei Grechikho and his trainers Eduardas Rudas and Ricardas Piepolis... Eduardas Rudas, President of the Lithuanian SAMBO Federation and coach Sergei Grechikho noted that SAMBO is reviving and spreading rapidly throughout the world... Sergei Grechikho (68 kg, combat SAMBO) defeated Romanian Valeriy Tiphineana in the final... Sergei Grechikho was born in 1985, graduated from the Lithuanian Academy of Physical Culture in 2008, since 1994 he has been engaged in sambo. [2] just mentions his name 3 times in the context of stats: In the entire history of Lithuania, three athletes have risen to the highest step of the podium at the World Championships: Cheslovas Ezerskas, Eva Klimashauskienė and Sergei Grechikho... Combat sambo master Sergei Grechikho became world champion three times (2007, 2009, 2012)... Sergey Grechikho (up to 68 kg). [3] is an interview (does not count towards notability unless the interviewer provides substantial independent analysis, which this does not) on his performance at the European SAMBO Championships by the organization that runs the event (it is therefore not an independent body and materials released by it can be considered part of the standard promotional press kit for such things). [4] is the same as [3]. [5] is another interview (see [3]).


 * GNG requires independent, secondary SIGCOV, which is not met by interviews (primary, not independent) and brief mentions. JoelleJay (talk) 03:51, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Don't understand how Russian news coverage of a mayoral ceremony honoring him for winning the world championship does not qualify as independent and significant. One interview starts with an assessment of his "will to win" and his "very original and painful hold" before ever starting the interview and one provides independent confirmation of his titles.  Both show independent analysis that precedes the interview.  I'm not going to go back and forth about each source, nor do I feel the need to look at hundreds of other hits that I didn't check.  I think you'd find them all insufficient anyway so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  Also remember that we have no sources in Lithuanian and there must be plenty of coverage in his own country and language. Papaursa (talk) 14:44, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The ceremony is independent, but the coverage of him is not significant: it states the mayor congratulated him and his coaches, says whom Grechikho defeated in the final, and then gives a 24-word overview of his career. It doesn't matter how much the interviews make him seem noteworthy, it only matters that the authors provide detailed commentary on him. The first interview is not usable anyway due to it being promotional content by the event organizer (doubly non-independent), only the second interview's author can be considered independent and all they provide is Three-time world champion in combat sambo, world champion in pankration, vice-champion of Europe in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Sergei Grechikho spoke about his preparation for the fight against Magomed Idrisov at M-1 Challenge 61. And Lithuanian uses Latin script, so I don't see how translation is an issue here. JoelleJay (talk) 00:35, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * So you can translate all languages that use a Latin script and you believe that there is no coverage of him in his own country (but he receives coverage in another country)? I'm skeptical of both those claims.  If you can't spell his name in Lithuanian then how do you think the search you did on his name is valid? I believe I'm done discussing this with you. Papaursa (talk) 01:30, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmm you're right, I just realized Lithuanian is one of those languages where names are subject to declension, and apparently I was searching with a very unusual case (Grečichas, which I had uncovered in one Lithuanian article) that returned very little coverage. So I figured if Delfi only had two hits for him with a surname spelling that was definitely used in Lithuanian media then clearly he wasn't notable! But now I see there is a lot more in the nominative case, so I'll revise my !vote. JoelleJay (talk) 22:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

<p class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 17:28, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I found results confirming his world titles in multiple languages, but none of them used the Lithuanian or Cyrillic alphabets. This made a proper search for his name impossible for me.  I know listings of results don't constitute significant coverage, but I was hoping that world championships in a wide spread martial art like sambo would suffice when a search of relevant language sources isn't possible. Papaursa (talk) 13:41, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep As per sources by Papaaursa which pass GNG, believe there will be more Russian sources out there talking about him.<b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:105%;color:#FF8000"> Cassiopeia</b>  talk  02:11, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - I've added one Lithuanian online source (lt name = Sergejus Grečicho) and there are others, never mind the offline coverage there must be in Lithuanian offline media: passes GNG.Ingratis (talk) 18:15, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per coverage found applying multiple Lithuanian grammatical cases to his surname. JoelleJay (talk) 22:34, 22 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.