Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Ramsey Campbell. Stifle (talk) 09:32, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos)

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This setting does not meet the general notability guideline because there is not more than passing mention of it in reliable third party sources. This is ignoring that the article is currently sourced entirely to primary sources, and more because a search for independent reliable sources has come up empty. What little out-of-universe information this has is cited to a self-published website. Shooterwalker (talk) 03:05, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shooterwalker (talk) 03:05, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 20:08, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 20:08, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Originally closed as redirect to Lovecraft Country, contested. I am relisting so that I am not influencing the outcome further.
 * Keep The nomination's claims are false as there are entire books written about Campbell's setting and works including Ramsey Campbell and Modern Horror Fiction; Ramsey Campbell's Goatswood and Less Pleasant Places; The Core of Ramsey Campbell. The topic passes WP:GNG and the usual policies apply including WP:ATD; WP:NEXIST; WP:NOTPAPER; WP:PRESERVE; &c. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:17, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: I added several references from published literary criticism. Ramsey Campbell: Critical Essays on the Modern Master of Horror (Scarecrow Press, 2013) has several pages discussing the setting. An essay in Writing Liverpool: Essays and Interviews (Liverpool University Press, 2007) discusses the similarities between Campbell's Severn Valley and his hometown of Liverpool. Ramsey Campbell and Modern Horror Fiction also discusses Severn Valley at length. — Toughpigs (talk) 18:44, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Lovecraft Country and Ramsey Campbell then convert into a disambig. This is all PLOT outside a few mentions in passing here and there, with what seems like the best section about signifiance/analyis, 'Ramsey Campbell' being either not about the topic, sourced to a WP:INTERVIEW or unsourced. The only other non-PLOT content is limited to the few sentneces in lead and can be merged to Ramsey Campbell, whereas the 90% of the article, i.e. the PLOT WP:FANCRUFTy elements, or their few sourced parts, can be merged to Lovecraft Country. After that, the article can be redirected to the LC article, through a disambig might be better (see the 'Real-world location' section). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:58, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep as above. Considerable amounts have been written about this setting, which is not the same as Lovecraft Country. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:26, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect or Merge to Lovecraft Country or Ramsey Campbell due to a lack of real world reception. Wikipedia articles are WP:NOT supposed to be rehashes of plot details. Reviewing the sources found at AFD, it's good to verify that this setting is based on Liverpool, but we should have more than a passing mention to establish notability for a full article that's otherwise just a collection of WP:PLOT details. Another reasonable target for this information would also be List of films and television shows set or shot in Liverpool if it were renamed "Fiction set in Liverpool". Jontesta (talk) 14:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Lovecraft County, the article is just a bunch of plot information mixed in with some irrelevant passing mentions. Clear GNG fail, no information worth merging. Devonian Wombat (talk) 07:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tone 08:55, 25 August 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Needs a bit more commentary. No real consensus
 * Merge to Lovecraft Country - Redirect to Ramsey Campbell The only real pieces of sourced, non-plot information is the small bits of info on the location's development and inspiration, which really are not enough to support an independent article. The vast majority of the article, though, is a massive wall of in-universe plot summaries sourced (only sparingly, at that) to primary sources, which should not be retained.  A brief overview of the location, along with the sourced pieces on its real-world development, would fit quite nicely in the Lovecraft Country article.  The information on the development and inspiration for the location is already present on the author's page, so a simple redirect is sufficient. Rorshacma (talk) 15:28, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As I've already said, the Severn Valley, which is in England, is not considered to be part of Lovecraft Country, which is in Massachusetts. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:28, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I am aware of that, but as that is the only current article that I am aware of that includes any kind of overview of some of the fictional locations in the Mythos, I thought it would have been the only real place that could potentially be used as a merge target. However, I actually just noticed now that the information I recommended being merged is already present in Ramsey Campbell's article, so I have revised my recommendation accordingly.  Rorshacma (talk) 16:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:22, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect per Rorshacma. There isn't enough coverage for this location but we could redirect to what little we have covered in other articles. Archrogue (talk) 19:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.