Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shadowyze


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep and rewrite. Due to concerns brought up about WP:COI editors involved directly with the subject should consider abstaining from major edits in the cleanup process.  A r k y a n  &#149; (talk) 21:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Shadowyze

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nn artist, also COI. Has no major albums, has won no major awards - precedent has established that nominations ar not the same as wins. Moreover, the COI Lojah, who records under the same name (see here, apparently wrote this article (his name is at the end of it), and is an artist involved with Shadowyze on at least one album as noted in the discography. MSJapan 19:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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Yes, I wrote the bio. I was not aware that being personally familiar with a subject barred me from editing an entry. You don't know your facts about Shadowyze. That artist has won the Native American Music Award in 2005, I believe it says that in the article. The Native American Music Awards is a NATIONAL event and determines who gets nominated for the Grammy in the Native American Music category. The Artist has also featured in multiple publications including Rolling Stone Magazine, the New York Times and the Miami Herald, the Chicago Tribune, Source Magazine and Native Peoples, just to name a few. Shadowyze has been recognized nationally and internationally and is even featured in an Encyclodpedia on Contemporary Native American Music which will be used as a resource on this article in the future. How is this not notable? As you can see there are countless resources online and in print that note Shadowyze even if you are ignorant of the subject. Lojah

- I thought it was an important post as I am interested in Hip Hop history. Curvedtalk


 * Keep and tag as needing complete rewrite just to get around WP:COI. Monni 20:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

---There's really no need to tag as a re-write, by the time that happens it will be ready to come down as I am and have been actively rewriting this article to bring it up to academic standards. The article was a stub when I found it, and being an expert as well as a primary resource on the subject I took it upon myself to cut and past his bio, with intention of returning and updating and reworking the article as I learned better how to do so on Wikipedia (which I am still doing). Since I am the author of the bio, I gave myself permission to do this. It was a fallacy to recommend this article for deletion as Ms. Japan assumed that since she had not heard of the Subject that he was not noteworthy. I’ve carried on a dialogue with Ms. Japan that you can read on our talk pages. She did not bother to do adequate research on the subject of which she is ignorant, assumed BAD faith and she never even bothered to open a dialogue with the editors about our resources which I was in the process of organizing before she wantonly through up a recommendation for deletion. Since that time I’ve posted resources that more than fit Wikipedia standards of notable persons and have begun a rewrite of the article. There really is no conflict of interest in the matter, simply because I happen to have been fortunate to work with Shadowyze—that’s what makes me a primary resource. I am also a trained anthropologist and I am involved in the Wikipedia Indigenous Peoples project and this article falls within that domain. Now if I could just figure out how to make footnotes in the article, all my edits in all subjects would benefit. Lojah


 * Keep with caveats. Obviously notable enough if nom'd for a Grammy. However it does sound like the article may need a complete rewrite based on COI (see noticeboard also). If Lojah is personally involved in the ways that it is said, then he needs to be restricted from editing the article. I would have no prob with him putting reference links, etc on the talk page for others to then interpret and condense. &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 10:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep and rewrite, only if the WP:COI issue can be resolved. The article is hopelessly mis-formatted and POV, but Shadowyze responds to search on All Music Guide and gets some 800 google-hits. If the articles/interviews listed as sources can be confirmed and preferable linked, this should meet WP:MUSIC requirements. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 13:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * 'Keep and rewrite - and deal with COI / article ownership issues. Tearlach 15:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

--I can understand the concern over COI, however I am not paid to write this article.. As I've said before I found the stub, with nearly no information in it. Since there seems to be no one else knowledgeable enough or interested enough, with access to as many resources as I am, restricting me from editing this article will only result in another limp and stagnant article. Believe me, if there was someone on Wikipedia more qualified or even AS qualified to write about the subject please send them this way. I certainly would appreciate the help. And if anybody want's to check my resources and lives in Pensacola, Florida I'll gladly show them to you. Lojah 19:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I should take it up at the Shadowyze entry at Conflict of interest/Noticeboard, after reading WP:COI and Ownership of articles. They won't advise you any differently; your situation is a very clear and major COI, and you shouldn't be directly editing an article about a colleague, whatever your knowledge. Wikipedia's no original research policy will explain why your final suggestion isn't on. (No-one, by the way, is stopping you acting as an expert adviser on the Talk page). Anyhow, here is the place to discuss all that. Tearlach 19:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

After assessing the COI guidelines I can understand the why some people may have concerns over COI, however knowing the limits of my affiliation with the subject I’d have to profess that I fall into one of the “grey areas” the COI article talks about. I see nothing that firmly and bindingly restricts me from editing the article Shadowyze, based solely on having worked with the man. The only thing that seems to be a BINDING rule is Neutrality. I am not paid to write this article. And I expect to receive absolutely nothing from Shadowyze or affiliated companies for this task. I also receive no monetary benefit for the sale of any Shadowyze merchandise, and I receive no royalties from Shadowyze music. I merely know the man and have been fortunate enough to work with him from time to time. My music company and his are not affiliated and our musical styles are nearly incompatible. I see nothing in the guidelines that >>requires<< that I be restricted even if was an employee of Shadowyze, simply that it is discouraged (not the same thing as forbidden) and those people who may appear to have a COI should be cautious about editing and if there is someone else who can do the job, to defer to them. I AGREE, but where are they?

It does say “As Wikipedians and encyclopedists, our job is to put the interests of the encyclopedia first.” And that is why I chose to sign up here to provide better information on subjects particularly in the Native American categories that were lacking. I just got lucky enough to find an article that I have direct knowledge about and direct access to archived resources as part of my personal collection on Southeastern Indians  that apparently few if any one else on Wikipedia has. I did not create the Shadowyze article and it has not even been my priority since I joined Wikipedia maybe two-weeks ago until someone ignorant of the significance of the man (particularly to Native Americans) tried to have it deleted. I’ve been more concerned with Stomp Dance and Green Corn Ceremony. Those two and Shadowyze are subjects I have a heap of knowledge and resources about that were just crying for attention when I showed up. Clearly I did not come here to advertise for Shadowyze but somebody who cared enough about the subject needed to pay some attention to it.

If you read the article, it may be poorly formatted, but it’s fairly straight forward and talks mostly about facts and dates. As I've said before I found the stub, with nearly no information in it save for an incomplete discography (it’s still incomplete, but I’ve been sitting on adding too much that I don’t have immediate access to the reference material even though I KNOW the facts—that’s actually pretty neutral wouldn’t you agree?). It was originally written as part of a college journalism project and I attend to rewrite it as the time and source material presents itself.

Since there seems to be no one else knowledgeable enough or interested enough, with access to as many resources as I, restricting me from editing this article will only result in another limp and stagnant article which only harms it and does nothing to better Wikipedia. I can provide facts and resources that other people won’t have access to or inclination to research themselves. If there is someone on Wikipedia more qualified or even AS qualified to write about the subject please send them this way. I certainly would appreciate the help. And if anybody wants to check my resources and lives in Pensacola, Florida I'll gladly show them to you. I can even introduce you to the man and then other people can say that YOU should be restricted from editing the article. In the meantime if you or anyone else who is willing to take the time to assist in this article and is not just trying to cause me grief, I will welcome the advice and edits. Lojah 21:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.