Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shain Neumeier


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. While I could relist there has been a fair amount of discussion and there seems to be no real consensus between the keep and delete participants about the quality of sources and so I am closing this now as no consensus. Barkeep49 (talk) 01:58, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Shain Neumeier

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shain_Neumeier for details. Nearly all sources are first person or brief mention, and the few independent sources discuss his views, which are not particularly unusual. Ylevental (talk) 15:54, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:19, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:20, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:20, 11 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm not sure whether their views (they use they/them pronouns) are unusual or not is material here. I reviewed the sources on the talk page -- in particular three in the second section. The article from The Nation introduces them as "Neumeier, who wrote an extremely important essay on the intersections of reproductive and disability rights for NOS Magazine, identifies as an autistic attorney and activist with ectodermal dysplasia" and then mentions them a total of 10 times, referring to them throughout the article. The other are similar.. The Washington Post has similarly turned to them for commentary in such articles. The question for me is whether these three articles -- especially The Nation which characterizes their work as "extremely important" plus the dozen or so other passing mentions turning to them as an authority meets GNG.Theredproject (talk) 21:50, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete there are inadequate 3rd party indepent reliable sources covering this person.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:57, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

There are other third-party sources not currently included in the page - see these for example:
 * American Bar Association features Neumeier extensively.
 * Massachusetts Bar Association honored them.
 * Several sources including WGBH Educational Foundation, Masslive, Rewire.News and New England Center for Investigative Reporting all discuss their advocacy work about the Judge Rotenberg Educational Center in detail.     and also discussed and referenced repeatedly in a Punishment & Society article

I edited the page and added some of these sources, and made some other edits to clean it up.

Ysannelo (talk) 02:31, 17 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The first source was already included in the original analysis. It is true that there are more sources, but they also have to be reviewed.  Additionally, it might be that you have a COI with Shain Neumeier, as you seem to know a lot about where he has been published, even articles from the early 2000s. Ylevental (talk) 17:41, 17 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment I will now quickly review most of the additional sources. I would say the honor from the Massachusetts Bar Association  is somewhat notable, but doesn't go into specific details as to his achievements.  The WGBH piece discusses his views on the Judge Rotenberg Center, where he represents one family that was victims of the JRC's policies .  The Punishment & Society article  contains only a couple quotes from him.  Every other source contains passing mention or was already disputed.


 * I think that to be really notable, he has to have served a major role in opposing the JRC's policies, or served a significant role in disability activism, and that his work must be covered in multiple sources in depth. Ylevental (talk) 01:44, 18 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong keep As a disability rights activist, Shain Neumeier is certainly no less notable than a number of other disability rights activists notable enough to have their own Wikipedia articles. There ARE more than an adequate number of third-party sources by which they and their work are mentioned, several of which are already cited in the article.  Further, I would strongly agree with The Red Project that with respect to notability it matters none whether their views are "unusual."  Andrea Parton (talk) 21:50, 18 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Another thing: This individual seems to be notable mainly for his views on the JRC.  WP:ONEEVENT states that for an individual to be notable, they need to be really involved in a significant event or involved in more than one event.  If the article does stay for now, it really needs to be reduced in size. Ylevental (talk) 01:16, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lacking sustained WP:SIGCOV in independent reliable sources about them and their work. The current content seems very WP:ONEEVENT to me. Newshunter12 (talk) 03:27, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Borderline for me - would suggest those recommending keep pick the WP:THREE best sources as currently the article is festooned with cites of varying quality. Stifle (talk) 09:59, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Strong keep Neumeier is covered independently in different outlets for different issues, such as The Nation for reproductive rights advocacy, Rewire for leadership in advocacy against shock treatment at the Judge Rotenberg Center, ABA Journal for legal work, and Rooted in Rights for overall activism. Minutiaman (talk) 16:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I just checked the Rooted in Rights Source, there are only two sentences about Neumeier . The ABA Journal Source  seems to focus more on personal characteristics than discussion of his legal work. Ylevental (talk) 17:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:SIGCOV and WP:TOOSOON - virtually every source is primary. That might be acceptable for a person from the First century AD, but not for a WP:BLP. This is the only reliable, secondary source that I can see. For the record, I am also an activist and have have four times as many followers on Twitter as they do. There is zero evidence this person has attracted much notice. Sorry. Bearian (talk) 19:51, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.