Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shelley H. Metzenbaum


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 12:57, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Shelley H. Metzenbaum

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Mid-level government official, academic and daughter of a senator, none of which seem to satisfy WP:BIO or WP:ACADEMIC. Clarityfiend (talk) 14:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:52, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:52, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:57, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:58, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - Metzenbaum is an elected fellow of the National Academy of Public Administration and meets criteria #3 of WP:NACADEMIC DaffodilOcean (talk) 14:17, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * National Academy of Public Administration (United States) you mean - this has 850 fellows, & I'm dubious all are notable. Johnbod (talk) 18:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did mean National Academy of Public Administration (United States). I cannot find information about how many fellows they have versus members. I added more details. For example, she was the 2013 commencement speaker at the Fels Institute of Government at the University of Pennsylvania (recent speakers include Helen Gym, Pete Buttigieg, and Larry O. Spencer). She also played a central role in the Obama administration's 2010 Government Performance and Results Act (add link to that page and an external link to photos of the bill signing. DaffodilOcean (talk) 21:51, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I have expanded the article a bit more to include her mentions in the Washington Post and the New York Times. She has spoken to Congress, been interviewed in the Federal News Network, and has given multiple keynote and invited speeches.   I also added a photo of her, Jeffrey Zients, and Barack Obama from the White House during the signing of the Government Performance and Results Act. DaffodilOcean (talk) 16:51, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 16:22, 7 December 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 09:59, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete as essentially promotional, as shown by the extensive blurbs used as references togethe rwith borderline notability at best. But she might be notable, if there's agreement that being a member the Academy is sufficient--and then   an article would be possible. We need a discussion about the National Academy of Public Administration (United States)] . I cannot tell from thePR-based article on it the extent to which it really does represent a top level honor inits field for a government administrator. The number of people is not unreasonably high, and thatwe don't have articles on many of them might be because of the difficulty in finding good criteria in this field. This might be very helpful if there's consensus to use it. DGG ( talk ) 20:57, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete mainly promotional article, there is no evidence of WP:NPROF or WP:GNG, membership in National Academy of Public Administration (United States) is not significant enough. --hroest 19:33, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep The article lists facts of her career. I don't know how that is deemed to be promotional. Some of the refs are not independent, but enough of them are to establish notability.Lamona (talk) 04:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete per DGG. The article is in an SEO maximized style, chock full of weasel words, and a quick online search easily reveals that the it was created by someone with a close connection to the subject. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as WP:Too soon. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:03, 16 December 2021 (UTC).
 * ??She's 70 in March 22. Time to make your mind up! Johnbod (talk) 03:21, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, Grandma Moses hit her stride at 78. Clarityfiend (talk) 14:44, 16 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment I have cleaned up the publication section, including the addition of three reviews of her contributions to edited books. Her election to the National Academy of Public Administration was covered in the Journal of Public Affairs Education. DaffodilOcean (talk) 14:47, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
 * contributions to edited volumes don;'t usually count the same as peer reviewed journal articles. What would make this very much easier would be if she had been awarded any actual honorary degrees. Often commencement speakers are, but it's usually mentioned quite prominently in all the PR. and can be easily verified.
 * the basic problem we have is in companies or governments, it's very hard to distinguish externally who really does the notable work. PR people can make whatever claims they care to, and they might even isn some instance be correct, but it's almost impossible to verify unless someone does a third party study of the agency or company. As an example, we among us know who does the noteworthy work here, but it would be very difficult to verify this to an outsider. Similarly,, those in the WMF  know who is really responsible for progress, but it would be very hard to demonstrate, and an outsider would probably treat any statement  with considerable doubt about objectivity. On the other hand it's easy to show who have been the CEOs.


 * Keep: per WP:SIGCOV as demonstrated in sources over time 1989, 1993, 2013, 2013. Being an elected fellow of the National Academy of Public Administration likely meets WP:PROF. TJMSmith (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. TJMSmith (talk) 22:29, 19 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep: per WP:SIGCOV. Easily meets WP:GNG.  Not the article it was when nominated for deletion.  Her governmental service and academic career are all notable in themselves. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 01:14, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep I agree with TJMSmith's findings,  are significant coverage about her in reliable sources.   D r e a m Focus  03:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, it has 54 sources. Randy Kryn (talk) 21:27, 20 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.