Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sherman Halsey (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. The work by User:Paul Erik seems to have pushed it over the edge.-- Kubigula (talk) 03:17, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Sherman Halsey
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Prolific? Yes. However, I'm copletely unable to find any reliable biographical info on him — literally nothing other than his website and Facebook verifies that he's from Independence, Kansas. His résumé shows that he's directed very many videos, primarily for Tim McGraw, but a long résumé means nothing without reliable third-party sources. The only sources I found in Google News were one sentence mentions (i.e. "Sherman Halsey directed the video for song X"), directory listings or false positives.

The awards he won aren't terribly valid assertations of notability either: GAC and CMT are fan-voted; MTV is apparently awarded to the artist; and only the ACM award is of any validity. However, the Video of the Year is awarded to both the artist and the director, so it's possible to win that award and not be notable as a director.

The article was previously deleted for failing the reliable sources test, and one year later, it still fails that same test. Precedent in both the first AFD and Articles for deletion/Kristin Barlowe suggest that directing multiple music videos ≠ automatic notability. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 20:36, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * As an aside, I suspect COI since has edited only articles on Sherman Halsey and his father Jim (who has a clearer assertation of notability, but the article's a wreck). Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 20:39, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 15:34, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 15:34, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Sprinting faster (talk) 09:46, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep With a career that notable, his work seen by millions, how can he not be notable? Also, if a music video wins an award, then the director of it is notable.  They don't just give it away because they like the song.  Search for his name and "video" to find some results.    D r e a m Focus  14:36, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Notability is not inherited. Saying "well, they must be notable" doesn't make them so; as I said, Kristin Barlowe has just as big a résumé and was still deleted, so WP:OUTCOMES is in play here. And I see nothing non-trivial in the sources. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 17:48, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * A director is notable based on their work and the awards they have won. And what the small number of people that showed up to comment in a previous AFD said, doesn't have anything to do with what consensus will be for this one.   D r e a m Focus  08:41, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

*Delete Mr. Halsey has an impressive list of credits, but an unimpressive list of reliable, third party sources talking about him directly and in significant detail. I do not agree that an award-winning music video automatically confers notability on that video's director. There are several music video directors who have become notable because of their craft (Spike Jonze leaps to mind; he was probably notable before his successful feature film career), but only because they have been the subject of significant coverage in third party sources because of their efforts. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ bomb  03:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This article has been nominated for rescue.  D r e a m Focus  14:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:ANYBIO The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times.  D r e a m Focus  08:41, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Weak delete: the only WP:Verifiable information in this article appears to be the 'Filmography', and Wikipedia is WP:NOT a repository for pages comprised solely of such material -- go to IMDB for that. Whilst the topic should be notable based on his awards, the article still needs third-party biographical information in order to be viable. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 11:12, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep – We would expect Wikipedia to have coverage of an individual whose recognition by peers and fans has led to multiple awards and award nominations. Just now I've added citations to multiple sources. Although some of them are brief mentions, I don't think I've added ones with trivial mentions, and there are enough of them to meet the bar of WP:N. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 13:34, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: given the largest chunk of the newly-sourced material is cited to a press release (the rest being largely fragmentary), and most of the biographical material remains unsourced, I would question whether this article demonstrates that the topic meets WP:N's requirement for "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". HrafnTalkStalk(P) 14:04, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, when I cited press release, I even wrote, "this citation helps with WP:V but not WP:N", so I was hoping people would not focus on that. As for whether the other references, in combination, are enough for WP:N, I expect you and I would agree to disagree about that. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 15:30, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep (changing vote from delete) per excellent improvements to the article since nomination. Agree with Paul Erik's assessment of the references he's added to the article and the manner in which they combine to demonstrate notability (to say nothing of a very impressive, award-winning, and varied career). The best AfD's are the ones where the article ends up getting improved through the process. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  16:35, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.