Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shield of Achilles


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was  k eep. - Mailer Diablo 04:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Shield of Achilles

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An object in a book is generally not notable, on top of which the article is an unencyclopedic mess. Lesnail 01:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Save. I deleted the rambling "mess" of the article, though the information could be added back if it was better organized. The Iliad is a famous work of fiction, while I'm not familiar with the specifics, the shield might be of particular importance in the overall story. ZimmerBarnes 02:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Question Is the content that is left enough to warrant an article? It's already mentioned in passing in Achilles, but this article doesn't add any knowledge of the Shield. Further, without the description of "great detail" as written by the poet, what else can be written about the Shield? Cedlaod 04:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. The article is slightly inaccurate--the shield is an object in the poem, but "Shield of Achilles" usually refers to the section of the poem where the shield's creation by the god Hephaestus is described. And it's the description that's important--it's one of the first and most famous instances of ecphrasis in western literature, and therefore very important in the history of aesthetics. Books have been written about it--for instance, Gotthold Ephraim Lessing, Laokoon; A.S. Becker, The Shield of Achilles and the Poetics of Ekphrasis. On the other hand, I'm not going to be able to expand this article any time soon, and I doubt that other editors will get to it soon, so I wouldn't be that upset if the article disappeared. By the way, there are a few other articles on episodes of the Iliad and Odyssey--Deception of Zeus and Nekuia spring to mind; if Shield of Achilles is deleted, editors may wish to look at those articles as well. --Akhilleus (talk) 04:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - Definitely a legitimate topic. From just my cursory education in classics, I know this is signficant. There's supposed to be some kind of artwork on his shield with some important symbolism. It's also a motiff in real art. Sofixit. Savidan 07:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Shields are lame. Swords are much cooler.--Perceive 07:14, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Per Akhilleus and Savidan. Very famous passage from one of the most influential works in Western literature. Imitated by later poets such as Virgil (the shield of Aeneas in the Aeneid) and Auden. At the moment it's just a stub but plenty of room for expansion. --Folantin 08:35, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep the object itself is not terribly notable within the story but the descritpion of it really is a key passage that is very influential. Eluchil404 10:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Update I think it's now a passable short article with room for expansion. --Folantin 12:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, and suggest speedy keep. Note that the version of the article edited by ZimmerBarnes and Folantin is not the article that was nominated, which appeared to duplicate a long swatch of a prose translation of Homer directly.  The description of Achilles' (replacement) shield is a passage from the Iliad that is easily worthy of a separate article, much as the Catalogue of Ships is. - Smerdis of Tlön 15:06, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep OK, I nominated it for deletion, but now that it is about the section of the poem rather than about the object, I am happy with keeping it. Lesnail 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge into The Iliad Is there such a thing as mythcruft? This would define it. Kyaa the Catlord 21:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. Per Folantin.
 * Keep. - Kittybrewster 00:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep While generally against such articles, this one supercedes any claim of non-notability. /Blaxthos 02:37, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.