Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shigehto Yumi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  18:37, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Shigehto Yumi

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

(Coped from Talk:Shigehto Yumi)

This article is largely unsourced claptrap. There is something in Japanese called a shigedō no yumi (with shigedō spelled variously in kanji as 重籐, 滋籐, or 繁籐), but there's nothing called a shigehto yumi, nor the more-standard Hepburn romanization possibilities of shigeito yumi or shigeto yumi.

An anonymous user discussed this with me over on Wiktionary a while back; I suspect this anon (using a series of anonymous IP addresses) is the same person as User:Mare-Silverus. See wikt:User_talk:Eirikr/2013 for that thread.

I don't think the shigedō no yumi meets the Wikipedia requirement for notability. I see too that the Japanese Wikipedia has no article at ja:重籐, with the main mentions occurring in subsections of the ja:弓 (武器) (Bow (weapon)) and ja:和弓 (Yumi or traditional Japanese bow) articles.

I'm nominating this article for deletion. If it survives the review process, the article is in need of 1) moving to a more-standard spelling (I suggest just Shigedō, or possibly Shigedō no yumi or Shigedō bow), and 2) complete rewriting. See 重籐 and wikt:User_talk:Eirikr/2013 for some reference. The two bows on the left of this image are two different styles of shigedō bow.

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:17, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions.  Human 3015   TALK    20:34, 22 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment Looks mostly like fancruft to me. The bow has appeared in a number of games and manga/anime such as Nobunaga no Yabo, Final Fantasy 11, Samurai of Legend, and Naruto. The only source that doesn't look like fancruft is this page from a European kyudo organization. The Wiki article looks like a copypaste of this. I doubt it is an RS, however.Michitaro (talk) 02:43, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * That European kyudo organization's page appears to be the same content as the now-defunct http://www.zenko.org/bows.htm/ page that the anon indicated as their source in the thread on my Wiktionary Talk page. This content is not backed up by much, from what I could find poking around the Japanese internet.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:30, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor Talk! 02:12, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete as WP:FANCRUFT and WP:NN and Redirect its redirects to Yumi.
 * There are a few book sources with "shigeto no yumi", etc, however all appear to indicate that the bow is rattan bound rather than purple leather.
 * The Shigeto as a type of bow is mentioned three times (with three different wielder) in the fourteenth century The Tale of the Heike (ie: well before Nobanuga) including:
 * In his quiver were twenty four arrows barred with black on their white feathers, not to speak of the special arrow, feathered with a hawk's wing, always carried by the Imperial Guard of the Takiguchi. His bow was a 'shigeto' of black lacquer with red binding.
 * There's a picture of the Shigeto no Yumi here
 * The Shigeto is mentioned at the Japanese page for kubi jikken as part of the costume for the ceremony, and this throws up a few hits on Google Books.
 * ... but there's nothing that suggests there's sufficient to make an article of its own. undefinedHydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk) 04:09, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I cannot find shigeto, only shigedō. I do see a few stray instances of 重藤, which presumably might be read as shigeto, but that appears to be a misspelling of 重籐 -- note the difference in radical on the second character, 艹 (from 艸) for the former, and 竹 for the latter.  The 藤 in the former spelling means wisteria, which is clearly out of place in this context, while the 籐 in the latter spelling means rattan, which is appropriate for the bows.  The latter spelling is the only one I'm finding in dictionary resources, such as Daijisen here or Daijirin here, among others, which all list the reading as shigedō.  I only find shigeto in English resources, which strike me as less reliable on the whole.
 * (Naturally, all of this may be moot if no article is forthcoming.) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 01:48, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * (You're the translator here, and this is rather outside the parameters for the AFD but...)
 * There are a few reasons I can think of why this may have been romanised as shigeto:
 * Long "o" has often been transcribed "o" rather than "ō"/"oo"/"ou"
 * The word is uncommon, and likely to be found in written sources only. Since the roots are shige + tō, a translator might not identify that the "tō" might become voiced (or unvoiced unaspirated??)
 * -籐 as a suffix does not universally apply rendaku -- see here. Not sure how trustworthy that is in its entirety, but note that there's a number of instances of "katō" being written 加籐 (eg this.
 * Given the age of the word, it's possible that "-to" rather than "-do" was deliberate to reflect the standard Middle-Japanese pronunciation (???).
 * And getting even further into the Offtopic Original Research morass: There may be a punning reason. If there were ever a purplish wrapping involved as the current article suggests, then a pronunciation suggesting wisteria might be appropriate.
 * Should it ever warrant an article (or even a mention in an article) it should be shigetō per WP:MOS-JA since the majority of English Language sources appear to romanise it as shigeto rather than anything else. A search in Google books for '"shige-X" bow OR yumi' has 3 hits for -dō, 24 for -tō, 1 for -dou, 7 for -tou, 18 for -do, and 489 for -to undefinedHydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk) 10:40, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting, thank you. I'm curious, how did you run your search?  I compare Google Books searches for "shigedo bow" OR "shigedō bow" OR "shigedo yumi" OR "shigedō yumi" and for "shigeto bow" OR "shigetō bow" OR "shigeto yumi" OR "shigetō yumi", and I get different numbers -- 5 books show up as hits for the "d" spelling, and a purported 74 (collapsing to just 22 when paging through) for the "t" spelling.
 * FWIW, rendaku is more common when the preceding morpheme has two morae, so a reading of katō for 加籐 is expected, while kadō would be odd. I also did find a Japanese resource that specifically mentions the "t" reading, but as an alternative: this entry in Daijisen.
 * If an article is deemed appropriate, I'm fine with WP:MOS-JA, provided that the article mentions that the Japanese reading more commonly uses the "d". ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:51, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * There's instances where the words are not adjacent, for example here where 2 out 3 hits are for Ni(t)chō no Yumi Chigusa no Shigedō. Apologies, however: I missed that Shigeto throws up a lot of false positives ("Shigeto" as a name, homonyms of "bow", Google's random count...) so true figure would be closer to 48 than 480... undefinedHydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk) 13:41, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 08:26, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete : The title is plainly wrong, since 'eht' cannot occur in standard romanisation as specified for WP. The whole article is dubious, and it is better deleted; it is not our job to hunt for nuggets of truth among the confusion. Imaginatorium (talk) 15:45, 12 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.