Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shiva murugan temple, concord


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Nobody wants to keep this, it seems.  Sandstein  10:11, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Shiva murugan temple, concord

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The New York Times obituary for Sivaya Subramuniyaswami states "In 1957, he began teaching in San Francisco, where he founded what the paramacharya said was the nation's first Hindu temple." This article asserts that "It is known as the first traditional Hindu temple established in the USA". If the subject of this article is in fact any or all of: then I would expect that there would be significant coverage in reliable sources of a place of worship called "Shiva Murugan temple", whether historically located in San Francisco or relocated to Concord. I have done due diligence, and have not found any evidence that this article matches any of those assertions. As always, please do prove me wrong about this. --Shirt58 (talk) 12:14, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * a temple established by Sivaya Subramuniyaswami
 * the first traditional Hindu temple established in the USA
 * the the USA's first Hindu temple, traditional or not
 * Comment: Hindu Temple Society of North America says the one in Flushing, Queens, "was the very first of the traditional Hindu temples in the USA", and it has a reference and a side note. Page 720 of ''The Encyclopedia of New York State, while not explicitly confirming this, does seem to imply the claim: "Following the Immigration Act of 1965, Indian professionals and their families began settling in Flushing ... Humble beginnings in homes, apartments, basements ... and converted buildings led to the first traditional Hindu temples in the West." Clarityfiend (talk) 11:15, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 00:33, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hinduism-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 00:33, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 00:33, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment, the above concerns could easily be allayed by "Shiva murugan temple is one of the first hindu temples in america ...", but is it notable ... Coolabahapple (talk) 00:42, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sarahj2107 (talk) 19:02, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - All Hindu Temples has a detailed account (not a mirror of WP) of the temple, with photographs. It certainly looks real; it may be that the temple itself submitted the text, but the photos indicate a real place. Temple Purohit has a briefer account and a map. Again, it isn't clear where the data came from but the temple seems real enough. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:37, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Reply. It's not a matter of whether it exists. There are lots of temples/churches/mosques/shrines. It's whether it is notable. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:48, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd say that everyone who's contributed here is aware of that, which is why the discussion has been so cautious. However, if this is the first trad. Hindu temple in the West then it's certainly notable. We have established that it is a Hindu temple in the West, so we're part way there. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:39, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

The first Hindu temple in America was however the San Francisco Vedanta Society's in 1906, following Vivekananda's 1893 visit, according to Timothy Miller's America's Alternative Religions. This is confirmed by the PBS Timeline: Faith in America. The Shiva Murugan temple was thus not the first in San Francisco; it could still have been the first traditional one, whatever that means, and it could have been established by Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:52, 8 October 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:58, 15 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - Well, since nobody seems too enthusiastic about this, I note that the claim to be the first traditional temple in the USA appears to be untrue, and I have removed it. There appears, therefore, to be nothing to prevent this article's deletion, and no sign of multiple, reliable sources to demonstrate notability. No doubt, when the temple has held some notable events an article could be written about it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:26, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. No significant coverage found. To disclose, I previously prod'd the article. James (talk/contribs) 18:08, 16 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.