Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shiyamalen Thavandiran


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 08:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Shiyamalen Thavandiran

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Not a notable chess player, doesn't meet WP:NCHESS: has only national junior championship titles under his belt, participations to world youth and junior championships are hardly a claim of notability. Sophia91 (talk) 17:30, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Sophia91 (talk) 17:30, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. North America1000 13:16, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep Holds record for youngest winner of Canadian Junior Chess Championship in history. This information is of importance to Canadian chess historians and should be kept in light of WP:NOTPAPER. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Masquesfaciaux (talk • contribs) 05:34, 12 October 2020 (UTC)  Masquesfaciaux (talk) 05:38, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete not a GM, so doesn't meet WP:NCHESS. None of the references in the article are substantial to meet WP:GNG, and nothing found (well, I found his Twitter account).  The Canadian Junior Chess Championship doesn't have an article, winning it isn't going to meet any award-based guidelines. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 05:47, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, does not meet WP:NCHESS or WP:GNG, as there is no coverage on him. I might have argued for a keep if he had achieved a good final ranking in World Youth Chess Championship or the World Junior Chess Championship, but I could not find it.  Walwal20  talk ▾ contribs 21:54, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   18:39, 15 October 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: The keep arguments are not helping as they reinforce the view that sourcing falls short. Therefore this is tending delete but more input would help
 * Keep. He was national champion in chess. Junior championship are acepted as a notoriety criterion, as can be seen in WP:NSPORT. The WP:NCHESS has no restrictions for junior championship. Considering that junior championships are also official championships, the WP:NCHESS interpretation must be broad and include junior championships. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 19:09, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Where in NSPORT does it say that junior championships are sufficient for notability? I don't see how you can interpret NCHESS to include junior championships. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 19:57, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Notability is in question. Fails WP:NCHESS. CleanAmbassy (talk) 02:13, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep His name is usually given as Shiyam Thavandiran – this may have misled other editors who have not been able to find anything about him. Does not meet NCHESS, but meets GNG: see for instance, , and offline feature articles cited here. His achievements (listed here) have also been regularly covered in the Chess Federation of Canada's magazine since the early 2000s (example here from 2007, see pp. 8–10). Cobblet (talk) 14:04, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak keep does appear to have significant coverage. It's borderline because this is a short stubby article but that is par for the course with a lot of competitive players in sports and games. Jontesta (talk) 15:01, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Youngest ever winner of Canada's junior championship is a decent claim to notability, and he is a strong player today even though he does not yet hold the Grandmaster title. He is continuing to get coverage in Canadian chess circles as Cobblet has shown.-- P-K3 (talk) 14:31, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 16:17, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * These "not very helpful" arguments are in fact attempting to show that GNG has been met, , , , even if he doesn't meet the unofficial WikiProject-only NCHESS criteria. At worst this discussion should result in a no consensus, not delete.-- P-K3 (talk) 15:00, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete We normally exclude IMs unless they are 'distinguished' in some 'other' way. For example, there are high level chess commentators, coaches and authors who have succeeded in these debates. However, being some kind of national junior champion would be expected of most IMs as part of their passage to the title. In the same way, playing international junior/youth events (without excelling) would also be commonplace in such a player's development. If such criteria were considered to confer article eligibility, then the majority of IMs would be termed notable, thereby opening the floodgates. Brittle heaven (talk) 16:01, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It may even open the floodgates to FMs and non-titled players, as some minor chess nations will also have junior champions who have been sent to continental and world championships. It just seems a dangerous precedent, and 'youngest ever' feels like a weak counter-argument to me. It's something you could find in all quarters - eg. 'he was the youngest ever captain of his school team'. Brittle heaven (talk) 16:17, 31 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete: Per Nom,, and some "keep" !votes that advance that the project covering criteria (NCHESS) for inclusion is either wrong or not on par with WP:GNG meaning there is a split notability criteria according to fancy. Aside from the dead links there is another issue of notability of a BLP being presented by largely primary or nonWP:independent sources that I should point out does not advance notability. Instead of pointing out where past Wikipedia consensus is wrong I would think providing reliable and independent sourcing a better route. It might also be a good idea to present these types of comments for discussion at the relevant projects for a criteria change, including the "unofficial" WikiProject Chess project with 355 editors, and not here. It should further be noted that non-independent or primary sources that just present a score card is not usually acceptable to advance notability. Since the International Olympic Committee considers chess to be a sport I suppose the criteria of WP:SPORTBASIC might be included. Otr500 (talk) 23:26, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete fails to meet WP:NCHESS and refs are not independent hence, fails to satisfy WP:GNG as well. -- KartikeyaS (talk) 19:09, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I do not see which of the sources discussed could be considered promotional or unduly promoting the subject's own view. Cobblet (talk) 21:31, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.