Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Short-short story


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  Sandstein  06:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Short-short story

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Synthesis of author's masters thesis. Article appears to promote the author's master thesis as being an expert in the field. WP:COI and WP:OR issues. Disputed PROD. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 23:06, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Flash fiction. Most of the material is about short stories, and the remainder is unsourced OR. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The article Short-short story should not be deleted. Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, the school where the author of the article took his master's degree is a center of excellence in Brazil. It is the third best university in Brazil, and the 241st best university in the world. The author's adviser in his master's thesis was the American professor Thomas LaBorie Burns, PhD. Overall, the source is very reliable. In spite of the fact the author himself is cited a few times, many other critics and writers are cited as well. His name should have not been deleted from the articles Flash fiction and short story, either! He contributed with many lines to these articles, too. Wikipedia has deleted his name but not what he has written! That is not fair! He should be rewarded for his work. Furthermore, what he has written was based on his master's thesis. Well, this is food for thought. Please, ponder those words. —Preceding unsigned comment added by José Flávio Nogueira Guimarães (talk • contribs) 07:13, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The issue is not the credentials of your university. You could have attended the number 1 university in the world and the problem would still be there.  The problem is that you have essentially published your thesis into a Wikipedia article, which is articles are not supposed to be.  I and another editor removed your name from other articles because they were self-promotional where you tried to publish your own research into the articles which is against Wikipedia's original research policy.  Contributing to articles in your research area is fine and we encourage such editing, but you should not use your own thesis as a reference. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 07:32, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Redirect per Clarityfiend. Wikipedia does not publish original research but we can keep the title as a search result. De728631 (talk) 13:08, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:27, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete for being the self-promotional summary of an unremarkable student's thesis "which was very recently posted on the internet - March 2010"; he's welcome to edit the short story article to cover any of the history that's currently missing, but his own analysis and neologism doesn't merit its own Wikipedia article. (I don't think it's worth redirecting his neologism.) --McGeddon (talk) 13:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Let's not give him too much credit for the term.. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:06, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, dear! THE TERM IS NOT MINE!!!!! I'm not so important. I've not coined any term or neologism!!! Please, read on the subject before commenting it. Robert Shapard does call the short-short story a genre in the 2007 collection named "New Sudden Fiction: Short-Short Stories from America and Beyond," as well as in the "Flash Fiction Forward: 80 Very Short Stories" from 2006. In 1986 it was not called a genre and in the Afterwords of "Sudden Fiction: American Short-Short Stories" (which I read a dozen of times, the Afterwords) writers tried to define what this emerging type of fiction was. I understand and I agree 100% that nobody creates genres or sub-genres. I challenge Mr. Shapard to read my thesis and understand my analyses and thoughts more fully. I am very well grounded theoretically. There is a link to it in the article new sudden fiction as well as in the article short-short story from Wikipedia. Anyway, if you type "The Short-Short Story: a New Literary Genre" at Google, you will find two links to it: one is from an office on higher research projects from the Education Department from the Brazilian government and the other is a Brazilian literary site where amateur writers and students post their creative and academic works. I do not believe the introduction of Mr. Shapard and James Thomas's book was misleading, but for the time I had and the material I had on my hands, I saw the "new sudden fiction" and the "flash fiction" as sub-genres of the short-short story since Shapard and James Thomas "decided to search for a distinction within the GENRE (enphasis added)...[and] split the child (sudden fiction) into two new children... "new" sudden fiction [and] flash..." Those were Mr. Shapard's words on page 15 of the "editor's note" of "New Sudden Fiction: Short-Short Stories from America and Beyond". My view might not be adequate. I'm thousand of miles away from the U.S.A. and things happen very fast. I cannot follow such speed. Furthermore, I buy books on the amazon.com and they take 40 days to get to Brazil and as I've already said my time was limited to research and write my thesis. I apologize for the poor contribution. I'm sure an American will do better. I bet. I've seen the "Sudden Fiction Latino" at the amazon.com. Nevertheless, at the moment I'm preparing a research project for my Ph.D. and the field of study is very different. I'm researching in the field of Jewish Studies, homosexuality and Judaism. I've changed completely. Then, EDITORS FROM WIKIPEDIA, feel free to delete everything I've written. I'm very sorry for attempting to help. I'm not good enough, I'm not an American! And don't worry, I'll stick to the Brazilian sites. Moreover, my Ph.D. dissertation will be written in Portuguese; then there is no need for concern. —Preceding unsigned comment added by José Flávio Nogueira Guimarães (talk • contribs) 01:03, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This is purely about the appropriateness of the sources - the same article from an American student writing about his own thesis would get exactly the same response.
 * The major problem with the article is that every time it discusses the "short-short story" as an actual, named genre, you are (so far as I can see) only quoting yourself as a source. If you think you can cut the article down to explain the genre of the "short-short story" using existing reliable sources and without ever referencing your own thesis, then the article can be kept. If it relies on your thesis to make its point, though, then it fails WP:NEO. --McGeddon (talk) 08:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess my thesis is reliable. Read what Wikipedia says:
 * "Articles should rely on secondary sources whenever possible. When relying on primary sources, extreme caution is advised: Wikipedians should never interpret the content of primary sources for themselves. See Wikipedia:No original research.
 * Material such as an article or research paper that has been vetted by the scholarly community is regarded as reliable. If the material has been published in reputable peer-reviewed sources or by well-regarded academic presses, generally it has been at least preliminarily vetted by one or more other scholars." The members of my thesis defense committee were Thomas LaBorie Burns, an American Postdoctorate from Colorado State University, professor from Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, José dos Santos, PhD from Purdue University, ex-professor from this institution and Magda Tolentino, PhD from Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, currently teaching at Universidade Federal de São João Del Rei. I'll check what Wikipedia says about original research, in spite of the fact I guess I've already read it. I feel there is a little prejudice due to the fact the article comes from an MA from a Brazilian university, then it's not a realiable source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by José Flávio Nogueira Guimarães (talk • contribs) 09:16, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * We could maybe use your thesis to support claims in another article, but I don't think notability policy wouldn support an entire article about a fiction genre which (so far as I can see from the sources) a few people have casually mentioned the name of or used when they need a title for their book or writing competition, and which you have coined as a genre umbrella in your thesis "The Short-Short Story: a New Literary Genre".
 * Again, I can assure you there is no prejudice here over the nationality of the university. An article based primarily on a single student's thesis, written by that student in a clear conflict of interest, would get the same response. --McGeddon (talk) 08:14, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep A great deal of evidence that this is a recognized genre. 697 Google scholar hits, see above, of which most are highly relevant: first , some books:
 * 1. ".. When an anthology such as Peregrine Smith's Sudden Fiction (1986) celebrates itself as the

declaration of an "ex plosive new literary form" - the short-short story - " from The Culture and Commerce of the American Short Story: America's Workshop by A Levy - 1993
 * 2. Sudden fiction: American short-short stories R Shapard, J Thomas - 1987 - books.google.com
 * 3, "Ten years ago, Jerome Stern, director of the writing program at Florida State University, initiated the World's Best Short Short Story Contest." from Micro fiction: an anthology of really short stories JH Stern - 1996
 * 4. "Atwood explodes the boundaries of the (short) short story genre." RM Nischik - The Cambridge Companion to Margaret Atwood

and some journals


 * 1. "Hoshi took advantage only of that corner of the prefabricated house which shaped his own form of "short-short" story." Japanese SF, Its Originality and Orientation (1969) by K Yamano, K Behrens, D Suvin, T Tatsumi in Science Fiction Studies, 1994 -
 * 2.", a Donald Barthelme short-short story as read by Joanna Gavins," TE Jackson - Poetics Today, 2005 - Duke Univ Press
 * 3."Perhaps the best reason for our few weeks with the short short story in the twelfth grade is that I enjoyed the exercise " HA Domincovich - English Journal, 1941 -

I could go on, but, as I said, there are hundreds of them. What the article needs is some rewriting to change the tone to one more suitable to WP. DGG ( talk ) 04:48, 15 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I've edited the article. Take a look at it now. I've cut down the number of times I cite myself from seven or eight to two. Let's make a deal then. I've edited it, now please, keep it with the two citations and the external link. Believe me. I'm a reliable source. Read it again. The two citations are very adequate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by José Flávio Nogueira Guimarães (talk • contribs) 06:08, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shimeru (talk) 20:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Redirect to Flash fiction. The term "short short story" is not a neologism, given that various collections of works labeled as such have been published. For example, Isaac Asimov et al. edited 100 Great Science Fiction Short Short Stories back in 1978. However, this article reads like an academic essay rather than an encyclopedia article. It would need a major rewrite to adjust its content and style to Wikipedia standards. Therefore, I recommend a redirect for now. If someone later on wants to write an article about the short short story as a genre as distinct from flash fiction, they can do so when they are ready to write it. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 22:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Flash fiction in one form of it, a contemporary form, the general term is older--my refs above go back to 1941, and I havent really searched systematically for the oldest.  DGG ( talk ) 04:48, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

By the way, thanks for the reply, McGeddon. Have you seen the few alterations in the article? What do you think? Now the article is not entirely based on my thesis. I'm cited only twice and in the end of the article. Nevertheless, I cite other six or seven sources throughout the text. You, McGeddon, have said we could maybe use my thesis to support claims in another article, haven't you? Which article, for instance? The New Sudden Fiction? Do want me to work on it? But I guess I don't have much more to say on it than what I've said. I can surely cut down the self-citations to one, perhaps, and do other few alterations. What do you think? Did you mean another article? The Flash fiction? You know I've already done some editing in it but I could do more alterations. I do not agree 100% with its writer's view. But I can tell he/she has knowledge on the topic. I could do some more editing in the Flash fiction and bring a citation of my thesis in to support one of my arguments or claims. What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by José Flávio Nogueira Guimarães (talk • contribs) 06:28, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I endorse what DGG has said. Thanks for the cooperation, DGG. Yes, the term short-short story is older than 1978 and the genre itself might have its origins as early as the nineteenth century according to Gitte Mose, a Danish scholar and her paper "Danish Short-Shorts in the 1990s and the Jena-Romantic Fragments", published in the collection of papers "The Art of Brevity: Excursions in Short Fiction Theory and Analysis," by the University of South Carolina Press, 2004. "Flash fiction" is a sub-category or sub-genre of the short-short story, the greater "genus."
 * I didn't say that the term "short short story" was coined in 1978, just that it can be shown not to be a neologism because it existed in 1978 (without trying to figure out when it originated before then). I would note that this article doesn't even mention the concept of the "short short story" until the third paragraph, which is an important part of my concern that this article would need a major rewrite to conform to Wikipedia standards. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 19:26, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment It's ironic that one of our longest long debates has been over a "short-short story". Mandsford 23:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep This term has been in use for decades. At the very least it deserves a section in the short story article. OTOH, it badly needs the removal of the original research by the SPA with the COI. Edward321 (talk) 00:32, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.