Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sierra Vista Middle School


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. Whether it may become notable in the future is irrelevant to now, and keep/merge arguments seem to emphasize "possible" future notability for the school or one of its teachers (which wouldn't make the whole school meet WP:N. It can be recreated if it ever does. --Core desat 03:22, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Sierra Vista Middle School

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Non-notable, delete per WP:OUTCOMES. ⁮şœśэїŝәқιￆṱᾅἻқￂ 00:25, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * What is the criteria for including/excluding schools in Wikipedia? It seems like a lot of schools have articles similar to this one. Arthurrh 00:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * High schools and above are usually kept, while middle schools, elementary schools, etc. are usually deleted (WP:OUTCOMES). ⁮şœśэїŝәқιￆṱᾅἻқￂ 00:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That seems strange given the hundreds, perhaps thousands of schools in Category:Middle schools Arthurrh 00:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Grand total: three articles. The subcategories are all empty. ⁮şœśэїŝәқιￆṱᾅἻқￂ 01:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually that's incorrect, you need to go to the sub-sub categories, it gets pretty dispersed. You can see it better by using the Special:CategoryTree. For example, Category:Middle schools in the United States leads to Category:Middle schools in California which has over 200 entries. I don't know how if there is some wiki-way to quickly sum up the total of entries in a category and all it's sub-categories, but it would be helpful. Note also WikiProject Schools seems to have no such distinction for preferring High schools but deleting elementary and middle schools. Arthurrh 01:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete: NN school. Again, as far as OUTCOMES, that should bear on whether or not to AfD an article.  OUTCOMES is just basically a results list of previous AfD's.  - Rjd0060 01:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to display my ignorance on this, but I've just recently wandered into the schools area of wikipedia because of searching for vandals. I can't seem to tell what the notability criteria is for schools. What's discussed above certainly doesn't agree with the schools wikiproject. Either a lot of articles are being kept that should be deleted, or the reverse is happening. Arthurrh 01:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

FYI a sum of all entries underneath the "Middle schools" category is 1670. (see list of Middle schools categories) This is somewhat inflated as I believe it also includes the sub-category names, but it is close. Obviously Middle schools are not an automatic deletion. Arthurrh 02:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete The notability guideline is applicable to schools; some people just don't feel like listening. This one is not notable. See my comment here about OUTCOMES. i said 02:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep: If anything, this school should be kept for it's outstanding music program. In the Southern California Honor Orchestra, both the concertmaster positions for String and Full orchestra are held by Sierra Vista students, and the Southern California Honor Orchestra includes these counties: Imperial, Inyo, Kern, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, and Ventura. I think that's enough to be notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PSMax8956 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OUTCOMES. Middle schools are usually deleted, but high schools are kept. J- ſtan TalkContribs 03:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I keep seeing this "Middle schools are usually deleted" but the fact that there are over 1500 of them seems to contradict this. Arthurrh 03:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but that's >1500 out of how many? -- Dennis The Tiger  (Rawr and stuff) 04:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going with a weak delete here - and the weak part is admittedlly because I'm from Orange County myself, so please forgive my bias. =^_^=  I'm not entirely sure that inclusion in an orchestra for a school constitutes any sort of notability.  Can we find something of articles to exhibit notabilty in the Orange County Register or something? -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 04:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete I want to concur with what's been said above: WP:OUTCOMES shouldn't be used as an argument in deletion discussions. It's just horribly circular logic. It's better used to decide whether or not to AfD something. (After it, it essentially reduces to: we should delete this because we usually delete this). Instead of that logic, it'd probably be better to cite the root policy that supports deletion (in this case WP:N, since I don't think the music thing is enough -- unless there are multiple WP:RS backing it up) B figura  (talk) 04:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Irvine Unified School District. Since everyone is so happy to point to WP:OUTCOMES (which I've never heard of) as their rationale, I'll be sure to add a line about WP:REDIRECT to it later this week.  Silensor 05:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge for now into the article for the district as a section--it will perhaps become notable in the future. OUTCOMES is just a summary of what usually happens here, and what usually happens here is that middle schools get redirected or merged, unless there is something exceptional. There is no class of anything that is automatically always non-notable. a well established middle school with academic or athletic prizes can well be notable. A prize winning orchestra is notability ,an orchestra by itself is not. Try again in a year or two. DGG (talk) 07:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete as nn school. Eusebeus 22:30, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete - Thank you Eusebeus - that is the information I was looking for. Arthurrh 22:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, nn. Per Rjd0060, OUTCOMES is irrelevant. CRGreathouse (t | c) 03:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect per Silensor and per WP:REDIRECT as well. RFerreira 21:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Science teacher Kathy Marvin was selected to go on a parabolic zero-gravity flight, and will be personally featured in a PBS documentary about it. Apparently, SV has also gotten some of the highest test scores in the state, I'll add that once I can find some proof.PSMax8956 01:09, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

(Bravo ex rel. Ramirez v. Hsu) regarding privilege to search students, but the case isn't cited by any others. – Zedla 06:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect verifiably notable bits per Silensor. Taking a look there is only one mildly significant item I see, a lawsuit http://www.fastcase.com/Google/Start.aspx?C=a17a0b6abc2f5f885ce56a5bf3a8322a913cc9c9e34fbe21&D=b9ee0ad19b8ade6ec6df66e0a140917bb9f5dbe29c09fccf


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.