Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sills Cummis & Gross


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Arthur J. Sills. Consensus for redirect to Arthur J. Sills. It can be further expanded in future if notability develops. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 03:00, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Sills Cummis & Gross

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Contested prod - searched for independent sources for the unreferenced articles drive but couldn't find enough for NORG Ben Azura (talk) 22:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Law, Companies, New Jersey,  and New York. Skynxnex (talk) 22:59, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * del tagged for notability since 2022 with no improvement. - Altenmann >talk 23:50, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Arthur J. Sills: I contested the PROD because I saw that there were a lot of press mentions and thought there might be some significant coverage of the firm itself. Now that I've completed a search and had time to review sources, this firm appears to be notable in the colloquial sense in that it's a well-connected New Jersey law firm, but I haven't found any coverage of the firm itself beyond brief mentions (usually in the context of identifying an attorney who works for the firm) or WP:MILL reporting on cases or other events that the firm is involved in. I propose redirecting to the first-named founding partner as an ATD. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:48, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Arthur J. Sills: per vroots. S0091 (talk) 15:12, 14 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep: I contest the deletion of the Sills Cummis & Gross page (and the nomination to redirect to Arthur J. Sills) and propose to keep the page with improvements. I have posted several proposed edits for the community’s discussion on the Sills Cummis & Gross Talk Page. Due to COI, these cannot be made without the community’s assistance, but we hope these edits improve the article to Wikipedia’s standards. Gdavis22 (talk) 20:54, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Gdavis22 The sources for your proposed edits are about Arthur Sills (NJ Globe titled "The Story of Sills), the firm's website which is a primary source and certainly not independent, an obit for Clive Sills, a routine announcement about the firm changing locations and an entry on list of large NJ firms which is trivial. None of those establish notability for the firm per WP:NCORP/WP:GNG.  S0091 (talk) 21:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @S0091 Thank you for your prompt reply. Would you kindly let us know what types of sources can be used to establish notability? For example, there is also a Wall Street Journal Article that mentions the firm’s Newark and New York offices (https://www.wsj.com/articles/people-are-returning-to-restaurants-stores-and-hotels-but-not-yet-the-office-11623749401). Can this be used as a notable source? Gdavis22 (talk) 22:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Gdavis22 No. Please do take the time to thoroughly read the criteria I linked above, WP:NCORP. What the firm says about itself is not usable.  For those who do not have access, the article is about post-COVID return to work and the portion regarding the firm is: Law firm Sills Cummis & Gross, which has offices in New York and Newark, N.J., started bringing back employees this month, managing partner Max Crane said. He said the plan was complicated by finances, politics, health and human nature. “You have to respect the psychological and emotional pieces of it,” he said.  S0091 (talk) 22:38, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Gdavis22: Here's my brief summary of what sources qualify in making sure that a topic is notable enough to have a Wikipedia article: For a Wikipedia article about an organization (such as a law firm) to be published, the organization must be notable. An organization is notable if you can provide multiple reliable, independent sources and if each of those sources has significant coveragein-depth discussionof the organization. Under Wikipedia's guidelines: "No company or organization is considered inherently notable."
 * A source is generally considered to be reliable if it has some clear editorial standards, including fact checking. For example, The New York Times or a scholarly journal article would be considered reliable.
 * A source is independent if it is not a person or organization associated with the company. Trade publications are looked upon with skepticism. Press releases and interviews with company employees are not independent.
 * Coverage of a company is significant if the subject is covered in depth in the source; passing mentions and routine news stories are generally not significant. "Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the... organization."
 * voorts (talk/contributions) 19:11, 15 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Arthur J. Sills - online, there is mostly just press releases or non-WP:SIGCOV. Maybe this firm will be notable in the future. Unfortunately the content provided by Gdavis22 is not apt.
 * TLA (talk) 02:23, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.