Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sindikatu


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Since Afds are not a vote, I'm closing this in favor of the side that has made the most solid arguments. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:42, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Sindikatu

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I'm no expert in organised crime, but while there's some substance to it i.e. historical figures like Asiong Salonga, this apparently reeks of an elaborate hoax, not to mention that similar articles have been deleted before for the same reasons. Blake Gripling (talk) 23:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:10, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:11, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:11, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - it has a lot of references to drug-busts, I find it hard to believe someone would go to that much effort just for a hoax (I hope otherwise they're wasting so much valuable Wiki-editing time!). Maybe dispute the fact or neutrality instead? Abcmaxx (talk) 00:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - Yes, but to me it seems to be pretty much filled with hot air. The tiger symbol in the infobox is actually from a certain Japanese shrine; even if I don't really know much about organised crime in the Philippines I don't exactly recall it being used at all, or featured in mainstream news reports. Another thing is "sindikato" or "sindikatu" refers to crime syndicates in general, not some association of criminal gangs, let alone a monolothic mega-group of thugs. Blake Gripling (talk) 00:58, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * And another thing: - Now that I found this page again, it's pretty much safe to say that this one's another handywork of Malusia22, so I'm calling for a G5 speedy. Blake Gripling (talk) 00:58, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * harsh: deleting an article because the author is a 'suspected' sock puppet is quite harsh dont you thinkChveawful (talk)
 * And just about how harsh is it anyway? It's more or less obvious as what the SPI case page shows, that similar articles have been recreated before under different names, only to be deleted as they were made under sock accounts and that they're elaborate hoaxes. I don't want to jump into conclusions, but it seems to lead to the same path as before. Blake Gripling (talk) 14:37, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * hmm: deleting it wont solve the problem either he will return using another name,we should deal with the sock not the article as long it has some merit to it,we should not throw away the whole bucket because of one rotten apple which is a waste for both the so called suspected sock puppet and usChveawful (talk)
 * Nope If there was something worth saving in the article, then I'd have no problem tearing out what Malusia22 and his socks had added, but from the beginning to end, it is him.Naraht (talk) 18:32, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep as it may dont you think your getting personal on this, the article is not a total hoax and it can be refined ,deleting it would be tantamount to a cover up,your seeming crusading nature about this article seems a mystery, i get you, its not a monolithic organization but it does state that it is a scattered group of crime factions and gangs before you delete it, admit that the word sindikato is a familiar term referring to the Philippine underworld, to call it a hoax is unbelievable im a new user and im not really familiar of the rules you guys set,im also starting an article on this very subject,im a political science student from University of San carlos,and i know that like the yakuza the sindikato is a term used to refered to various filipino crime syndicates im willing to start a new article about this very subject to get the fact straight im not willing to let ignorance perpetuate pertaining to this criminal organizations wreaking havoc on my country(selling drugs and vices on the streets of my beloved nation) if this article does get deleted i will start a new one but this ill state the true facts and unbiased truthChveawful (talk) 02:58, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:HOAX. The word "sindikato" is indeed commonly used to describe violent criminal gangs in the Philippines. However, never has it been referred to as a proper noun, and definitely not in the manner it is spelled on the page, with a final u. The article is arranged and written so that it seems legitimate, with sources and images. However, the sources are either unreliable or just talk about a particular "sindikato", and the images are not of the actual subject.  Mr. Gerbear | Talk 04:30, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - Agreed. I doubt that there's such a loose confederation ala-National Crime Syndicate. Furthermore, as I said earlier, has there ever been a time when one of those groups associated with this so-called "sindikato", or news sources for that matter, used a tiger symbol to signify them? Also, while it may construe as WP:OR, I asked my old man's opinion and yes, he did confirm that the sindikato is just that: a mere transliteration of the word syndicate. Members of different gangs may know each other, i.e. in prison but besides that, they're either very loosely affiliated, or perhaps having a fierce rivalry. Blake Gripling (talk) 06:15, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep seems legit — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.151.99.44 (talk) 12:29, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep - definitely legit. seems to cover WP:GNG,--BabbaQ (talk) 14:13, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - I think you fell for his trap real good, dude. None of the sources connect the dots between the groups who (supposedly) comprise the sindikato, sindikatu or whatever name he's using. Blake Gripling (talk) 14:25, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not censor information. Sorry.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:32, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but Wikipedia does not allow hoaxes either. That being said I DO need some input from those who know something about the gangs. I'm not pushing this to be deleted merely because I don't like the article, which is why I put it on AFD rather than brashly call a speedy. The article's seemingly legit nature accounts for why it has evaded detection, but do a little research on Philippine gang culture and you'll see why some of us aren't pleased. Blake Gripling (talk) 14:40, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep theres no evidence either that ever been put to discredit it thoroughly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.151.92.106 (talk) 15:22, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete - Definitely a work of User:Malusia22. I live in the Philippines so I can attest that this is a hoax, regardless of the sources added all over the article. The "Sindikatu groups" the author indicated here are actually informal names for certain groups and they are NOT related or collaborating in a certain way to each other. This article looks like a page that came from Unencyclopedia -WayKurat (talk) 16:09, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * If I may add, it looks like the two anons that voted "keep" were socks of Malusia22. (User:49.151.92.106 and User:49.151.99.44) -WayKurat (talk) 16:12, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep definitely legitimate like yakuza — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slipsaild (talk • contribs) 16:49, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Wow. Another sockpuppet. -WayKurat (talk) 16:53, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, I have reviewed this AFD nomination and I found four sockpuppets of Malusia22 voting for "keep". Two sock accounts (User:Chveawful and User:Slipsaild) and two IP addresses. -WayKurat (talk) 17:00, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * huh me are you serious lol,im new so lay off — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slipsaild (talk • contribs) 17:07, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Come on. If you are new, why is it that your first and only edit is a "keep" vote here? A normal "new" user won't do that and instead edit other articles; not an AFD page. -WayKurat (talk) 17:16, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep way to go waykurat — Preceding unsigned comment added by ANTI-WAY KURAT (talk • contribs) 17:21, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * keep on accusing way kurat you'll definitely go places lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by ANTI-WAY KURAT (talk • contribs) 17:24, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Wow, now you are really resorting to this? And you even have the guts to threaten me? It's now obvious that you are Malusia22. You created new accounts (and impersonated me) just to keep this hoax article. -WayKurat (talk) 17:30, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep it is a legitimate account on Philippine crime groups about time the Sindikato is introduced to the world yes definitely the Filipino mafia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.54.143.37 (talk) 17:37, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete and Salt None of the references deal with the core of the article, at best are description of the group mentioned without reference to sindikatu.Naraht (talk) 18:29, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep sindikato exist yes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thugmergenash2 (talk • contribs) 18:35, 3 September 2014 (UTC)  — Thugmergenash2 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Note, as of 18:46, 3 September 2014 (UTC), there is one keep that isn't a Malusia22 sock:BabbaQ Also, I did a google news search for sindikatu, all of the stories that came up were in serbian or croatian at least according to google and clearly had letters *not* used in any of the Philippine languages.Naraht (talk) 19:04, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep seems legit with all the references cannot be a hoax with all the citations backing it up as deletion goes a hard sell — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.210.84.162 (talk • contribs) — 112.210.84.162 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Speedy delete I have yet to find a source on the page that mentions the word "Sindikatu" even once. The is the most sockpuppetry I've seen in quite awhile on one page. Only one of the keep !votes is from a non-sockpuppet (User:BabbaQ), who doesn't appear to have read the sources cited. OhNo itsJamie  Talk 21:54, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Hint: strike the sockpuppet votes. Ansh666 22:54, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.