Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sinthyia Darkness


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Despite the majority begging for keep, none of their arguments are grounded in our policies in any shape or form. Note that use of terms like "vanity article" are strongly discouraged as a courtesy to the subject, the author, and other editors, and that legal threats will be dealt with severely per policy.  kur  ykh   07:32, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Sinthyia Darkness

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Non-notable person. After reasonable efforts, couldn't find any significant media coverage. Her book is in the 5+million in Amazon's sales rank. Couldn't find a review, even on Amazon (don't search by the book name as there are books by other authors of that title that have been reviewed). Bongomatic (talk) 03:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Just because you could not find a review on the likes of Amazon, does not mean the subject is not notable. Secondly, Sinthyia Darkness does many other things besides being an author.She is a talkshow host, entertainer and is regarded as an expert in the paranormal field. There is no way that you can say the subject is not notable. You cannot expect to find everyone's work and life history online. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkfan (talk • contribs) 02:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC) — Darkfan (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 05:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 05:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete: Nothing substantive on Google or Google News, no evidence of passing WP:BIO.   Ravenswing  14:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * KEEP:I agree that this biography should not be deleted. We need to have biographies of those well known in the paranormal field and Sinthyia Darkness is well known. She is notable. We do need time to work on finding additional citations. The Miami Center For Paranormal Research is reputable and one of the only such organizations in the area. We must also consider the historical importance of this new paranormal talkshow of hers, which has never been done in the United States and as such will make television history. Very notable person, indeed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.176.210.223 (talk) 13:03, 24 October 2008 (UTC)  — 66.176.210.223 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * KEEP:The discussion is absurd. Ms. Darkness has been on Wikipedia for some time now and nobody has had a problem.  She is well known in several countries.  I suppose that Wiki should only include the high elite in its articles.  "Nothing substantive"...as who?  Tom Cruise?  Ms. Darkness gets plenty of press.  Because she's not constantly highlighted on Entertainment Tonight, I suppose that's what makes the difference.  Why aren't YOU listed in the Wikipedia?Pianotm (talk) 15:46, 24 October 2008 (UTC) — Pianotm (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * KEEPMs. Darkness is a non-self published author which means another party published her materail, even if it is Publish America. Her book does appear in Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble's website for order. I think if a link for The Miami Herald article could be given, that there would be substantial evidence by third party references to prove her notable. With a field such as the paranormal, it is hard to get references such as the Miami Herald and other news agencies to cover people known in these fields. I do believe that Ms. Darkness is notable and that this article should stay in wikipedia. Maybe request more citation including The Miami Herald article, bo do not delete it.TannithDarktalon (talk) 16:21, 24 October 2008 (UTC) — TannithDarktalon (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Comment: First off, what Miami Herald article? Neither the Herald 's online archive nor Google News have heard of Ms. Darkness.  Secondly, what elements of WP:BIO do any of you claim she meets, and with what specific evidence?  Thirdly, that she may have another book in the works and may be on a TV show I won't dispute, but WP:CRYSTAL holds that we can't take notice of them before they've actually happened without reliable, third-party, independent sources saying so.  Fourthly, Publish America is certainly a vanity press.  Fifthly, presuming that Ms. Darkness actually launches her "paranormal talkshow," it would certainly not be the first one in America; I found several with a casual search, and that's not even in the ballpark with Coast to Coast AM.  Fifthly, WP:RS does not require online sources, but it does require that "Wikipedia articles should use reliable, third-party, published sources. Reliable sources are credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand ... As a rule of thumb, the more people engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication."  Finally, I understand that a lot of you are piling on from Ms. Darkness' blog page, and recommend you familiarize yourselves with Wikipedia policy and guidelines, the only applicable grounds for debate here: WP:SPA, WP:PILLAR, WP:BIO are good starts.    Ravenswing  17:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * delete not notable enough for her own article. Interestingly enough, the "keeps" seem to be new users to wikipedia. Could it be the same person? Masterhatch (talk) 19:11, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * LIBELThis is Sinthyia Darkess herself posting this message in this discussion. A few individuals have emailed me about this discussion and I have come here to see for myself. Now, either you remove the libelous and defaming comments made here by your editors immediately or I will sue you for damages. You have made some very strong accusations and your comments are out of line. I am giving you full notice. "Fifthly, presuming that Ms. Darkness actually launches her "paranormal talkshow," it would certainly not be the first one in America; I found several with a casual search, and that's not even in the ballpark with Coast to Coast AM." My talkshow will begin filming in December for your information. Yes, my show will be the first of its kind in the United States. Coast To Coast AM, is a RADIO show, mine is a TELEVISION show. Publish America is not a vanity press. I have not paid one cent for the publication and my next book will be published by another traditional publisher. I will not name the publisher here so that you can badmouth them as well. "Finally, I understand that a lot of you are piling on from Ms. Darkness' blog page," this is another libelous statement. I have not posted anywhere on my website suggesting that anyone come here.  While I thank Wikipedia for consideration..this discussion has gone to the extreme.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.176.210.223 (talk) 23:04, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * comment: Hello sinthyia Darkess. Thanks to your most recent post, i can now say that this is a vanity article (another reason for deletion). Your comment from your real self came from the same IP address as this edit, and this one . This means you are either talking about yourself in the third person or you have multiple personalities and one of your other personalities made those two posts. Now, since you claim that you learnt of this discussion via email, that rules out someone else using your computer to make those two posts. Otherwise, that person would have told you in person, not, as you said, "A few individuals have emailed me about this discussion and I have come here to see for myself." Masterhatch (talk) 23:23, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * comment:Masterhatch. There are two people posting from the same computer: myself and Sinthyia.  You didn't think that I would just sit here and watch while this nonsense continued, did you?  Furthur, the article you are responding to is in response to a rather poorly considered comment, wouldn't you agree?  There needs to be a school to teach people to act their age.  If you cannot be diplomatic, impartial and professional, then you don't need to be representing the Wikipedia.Pianotm (talk) 23:38, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * looking at your posts, I would say your only purpose on wikipedia is to promote Sinthyia Darkness and try to create notability for her. Again, if this isn't a vanity attempt and you are really on the up and up, why did it take an email for Sinthyia Darkness to know about this discussion when you could have told her yourself. I mean, you are using the same computer as her. Masterhatch (talk) 23:51, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * commentSo then delete my account. Like I care at this point.  I might have used it to improve Sinthyia's article and maybe even occassionally added to articles about the paranormal or pianos (I'm a piano technician).  According to articles on the subject, that does not violate the rules of Wikipedia.  Also, I do not dictate what she writes.  Since we're talking about the same computer now, let me simply forward this message for you.  "I don't need any promotion.  I have specifically asked for this post to be deleted along with the comments."  The truth is, we will not be associated with a forum that cannot be conducted in professional manner.  If another article is ever added about Sinthyia Darkness here again, we will take legal action to ensure its removal.  I hope this has simplified your problem.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pianotm (talk • contribs) 00:15, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * RULESHere is your WP:BIO in a nutshell "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." The Palos Hills Reporter (reported on her book), in Oprah "O" Magazine (under another name. She wishes it to remain anonymous), MiamiHerald.com (has in fact reported on "Nightmare Theater" in their celebrity column), Coconut Grove Grapevine (Reported on her investigation at Coconut Grove Bahamian Cemetery) and this is just off the top of my head. Publish America is not the most reputable publisher available, but they are no vanity press.  A vanity press (as part of the very definition of a vanity press) requires its authors to pay a fee for publishing.  However they may conduct their business, they do not meet the criteria of a vanity press.  Because of questionable pricing, people have tried to make it appear that they are charging others the fees that would usually be required of an author, and maybe they are, but no matter how much they say it is, a publisher must fine its authors in some respect before it can be legitimately called a vanity press.  YOU MAY NOT LIKE THEM BUT YOU CANNOT BEND THE RULES TO SUIT YOUR OWN WHIMS!  Sinthyia Darkness, notable or not, is recognized by people everywhere she goes.  They are reading about her from somewhere.  Complete strangers (at the gas station, in the hospital, much to her surprise, the FBI) recognize her.  Many of the journals she has been published second-party in, may be small, and many are not available online, but they are just as reliable as Pulitzer Company newspapers and Associated Press.  Furthurmore, word has spread.  People are recognizing in states that she has never dwelled in.  It is not her job to do your research.  If you cannot research properly, then step down.  She didn't ask to be put in the Wikipedia, but now that she is here, everything here is reflecting on her character and your unprofessional behavior is too.  Don't think that because this is the internet, you are safe, particularly on a forum such as this.  What you do and say here is going to have real-world consequences for you.  Your statements are indeed libelous.Pianotm (talk) 23:31, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment"Or you have multiple personalities and one of your other personalities made those two posts"

I agree that comments such as these are very libelous and unprofessional. I am disappointed. I truly expected more from Wikipedia. Have you no respect for a published author who is someone well respected in their field? Obviously not. While you do not have to agree that the subject is in your opinions "notable", your conduct here is appalling. There is no reason to wage personal attacks against the subject of this article. I created this article as I felt it was necessary for me to begin articles on those involved in the paranormal field. This was the first of several that I planned to write about other investigators and authors. That most certsinly will not happen now. I am now ashamed to be connected to Wikipedia and find it unworthy of academia. As the author of this article, your off color comments have placed me in a position of a possible lawsuit. I never meant for any of this to happen and I have offered Ms. Darkness my sincerest appology.--Darkfan (talk) 22:44, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.