Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sissel & Odd


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. v/r - TP 20:12, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Sissel &
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Two solo artists making one record together does not establish a duo Orland (talk) 19:15, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

My second argument is that the existance of the article is based upon a misunderstanding of the nature of artist collaberation. Some comparitions: Johnny Cash has made several duet albums with other well known artists, but it would not be right of wikipedia to speak of Johnny & Tammy (or Johnny & Waylon or Johnny & Willie) as an established duo, would it? Not to mention how many new duos we could make out of albums like this one. Bw --Orland (talk) 23:11, 11 December 2011 (UTC) You must allow me the benefit of playing on home ground here. I read norwegian newspapers daily, and I can assure you; there has not been any "What will be their next project together"-discussions in the media, and there is no common understanding in Norway that they now form an established duo. They made one record together in 2009, and march 2010 was the last mention of the term "Sissel & Odd" in the papers, that was in connection with the norwegians grammy Spellemannprisen for 2009. Bw --Orland (talk) 21:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC) I fail to se the difference between this collaboration and my examples; at least two of the three mentioned Cash collaborations reached the charts. Concerning the inclusion guidelines: Should it not be responsibility to those in favour of keep to supply the article with good references? My claim still stands: We need sources to prove that this is a duo. --Orland (talk) 11:51, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. The deletion rationale is non-sensical; indeed, it is common for established artists to come together and form a new band, temporarily or permanently - there is no established principal that we ignore it. For examples, compare Gnarls Barkley, or ABBA, or any of the bands listed at Supergroup (music). RichardOSmith (talk) 21:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It is indeed "common for established artists to come together and form a new band"; but that is not the case here, and there a no reliable sources to the idea that this one record collaberation is the beginning of a new band. My first argument is therefore lack of sources to the idea that their collaberation is the forming of a "new band".
 * You presumably agree that some collaborations, such as Gnarls Barkley, do warrant their own articles (maybe you do not - your deletion rationale is that established artists forming duos have no inherent notability - but whether you do or not - consensus is that they do), and I agree with you that (obviously) there are other collaborations that do not. The question is, on which side does this duo fall? As it had a number one album and top twenty single in Norway, I don't think there is any doubt that it is notable. RichardOSmith (talk) 19:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree that some collaborations do warrant their own articles. But only if it proven by reliable sources that there is a collaboration that goes beyond that one album. You might have misunderstood my argument: It is of course possible for etablished artists to form new duos, but there is no proof that there has been formed a new duo in this case; all we can see is a one album collaberation between two major norwegian artists, very much like the Cash collaberation projects i refered to.
 * Which Wikipedia guideline or policy requires that the collaboration "goes beyond one album"? What we have here is (a) a collaboration that is notable (unlike some of your other examples) - as shown by the fact it produced a number one album (WP:BAND #2), and (b) no requirement for ongoing coverage (WP:NTEMP). According to inclusion guidelines the article qualifies. RichardOSmith (talk) 09:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Again, there is no doubt that there has been a collaboration; but the raison d'etre of the article is that the two artists are defined as a duo in the lead in-sentence, and there are no sources for that. IMHO being a duo means that a) the two agree to define themselves as a exclusive duo for a period of time, b) perform or record together.


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. WP:TOOSOON.  They might be next Simon & Garfunkel, but a short collaboration is not encyclopedic on its own... yet. --Legis (talk - contribs) 08:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:BAND #2 says that, in this case, it is. RichardOSmith (talk) 19:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The purpose of that rule is IMHO to make one hit wonders notable. There is no doubt that both Ms Kyrkjebø and Mr Nordstoga are notable in their own right; the matter of this discussion is whether they form an ensemble or not. I haven't met anyone in Norway who believe that they are. And then we're back with Johnny & Waylon. Bw --Orland (talk) 22:05, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment: Scandinavian coverage seems significant and Stralande jul was certified Gold in Sweden ((P.6) IFPI Sweden). Is there enough encyclopedic info in those sources to create an article? H & Claire (from Steps) also only recorded one album. Mattg82 (talk) 22:50, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course there was media coverage; these two are norwegian megastars, and they made a bestselling record together. But that is not the issue. In the case of H & Claire the article explicitely says that they "formed the duo". That is not the case here. The only raison d'etre for this article is claim that Sissel & Odd are a norwegian duo, which it is not. Why don't we take a look at some primary sources, like The Official Sissel Webpage, section "Musical family". Where is the alleged duo? --Orland (talk) 07:58, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So this collaboration is something like what Robert Plant & Alison Krauss did? More like a duet than a duo ? If yes, I am voting Delete. The album Strålande jul will have all the info about this collaboration. Mattg82 (talk) 23:38, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * To the point, exactly: "More like a duet than a duo" . Yes, that sums it up. Bw Orland (talk) 16:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I like this example as it clarifies the deletion rationale for me - thank you! However, whilst I more clearly see why there is a case for deletion, I remain of the opinion that the case for keep is much stronger. There are some good reasons why this particular comparison does not sway me:
 * Whilst we were citing some examples before to show a general trend; one specific case is not really indicative of anything, per WP:WAX. And even if there is'nt a Robert Plant and Alison Krauss article, that does not necessarily mean there couldn't be, (unless it has been tested at AfD already). Perhaps there should be.
 * There is a subtle, but perhaps important, difference. We are not discussing the Sissel Kyrkjebø and Odd Nordstoga article, we are discussing the Sissel & Odd article. The album and single are not simply attributed to the two individual artists, a new name for the duo has aparrently been created.
 * RichardOSmith (talk) 22:18, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep The article doesn't claim there is a long-term partnership, it simply describes the notable 2009 collaboration. The product was a multi-platinum selling album, attributed to "Sissel & Odd", that surely must have received sustained coverage. Again, rather than encouraging someone to find better sources and develop the article, we have an editor trying to delete an article completely. The resons for deletion are erroneous. Sionk (talk) 22:31, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I am trying to delete this article because it is describing something unexisting, and therefore without any sources. The difference between a duet and a duo has already been discussed. --Orland (talk) 08:27, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * In that case, change the word 'duo' to 'duet' or 'collaboration', which would be a far more constructive approach than trying to get an article deleted on grounds of semantics. Sionk (talk) 12:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete; agree with Orland. Individually they may be notable, but not as a duo. Their collaborative effort (e.i. the album) may be notable, so just move the info to Strålande jul and keep a redirect to it. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 15:51, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.