Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Six Families of Berlin


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete  as attack page, per explanation below that the references do not contain what is claimed. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:13, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Six Families of Berlin

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Although I have removed most of the unsourced and apparently libellous assertions, this remains an offensively racist article. The only references are to German language newspaper articles. The term "Six Families of Berlin" apparently does not exist outside this article -- all of the few Google point to clones or mirrors of this.

The original Prod tag was removed without any attempt to improve the article, by an editor who is facing a topic ban from ethnicity, race, and religion-related articles. I believe this removal was not in good faith, and repeat the proposal to delete this anti-Muslim propaganda pierce. RolandR (talk) 07:21, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete I started an AfD just after this one which had not been entered completely but I've now deleted mine. I searched for the term "Six families of Berlin" in vain, and also noted that the article has a reference to 12 families. I also note, if only for interest, that the article's creator had uploaded an image copied from a neo-Nazi website. Dougweller (talk) 08:50, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep The article reads well enough and is extensively referenced. We might want to retitle for accuracy as it appears the clans operate in cities other than Berlin. Or maybe a merge into known German crime syndicates?--Wittsun (talk) 08:56, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong Delete -this is pure synthesis, and an attack page. The topic itself isn't notable, and this is in blatant violation of Wikipedia's policies on controversial information concerning living people. I can't see how this article is factually accurate - it seems to be based on scare-mongering tabloid journalism. Wikipedia's article on Lebanese diaspora suggests that there are only 50,000 Lebanese in Germany, so this article seems to be branding all Lebanese as criminals. Claritas § 09:49, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Pure synthesis, with low-quality sources, and even of those I found several that do not support the claims made. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - we need some German speakers to help us with this - I have tried to summon a few. The boldest claims really need to be sourced. - Richard Cavell (talk) 13:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Why ? It's pretty obvious with De-0/1 that each newspaper article simply deals with individual crimes committed by Lebanese or Lebanese gangs, and the article fallaciously links all of them together. Claritas § 13:09, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I've checked some of the sources - my summary is above. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Not true. Here is an exerpt from one of the articles: "Muhammed B. gehörte beim Überfall 2004 zum Umfeld eines der bekanntesten kriminellen Clans in Berlin, der Familie El-Z. ". I think most of the editors here are objecting for personal reasons rather than considering the veracity of the info which is both substantial and useful. Non-German speakers are not capable of evaluating the primary sources.--Wittsun (talk) 15:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete Not a worldwidely recognised article, as the nom mentioned the only sources are German. Minima  c  ( talk ) 13:33, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Most of WP's articles aren't worldwidely recognized, and there's nothing wrong with dependence on German sources. -- Hoary (talk) 13:42, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as OS at best. -- Hoary (talk) 13:42, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm a German speaker, and looked through most of the articles - no mention of any Six Families. Sources are a combination of instances of crime "families" or gangs and instances where more than one family member was involved in a crime, but none of the sources allege the sort of scale or scope the article makes a claim to. The largest "family" appears to be a 400-member street gang. Total OS. Kate (talk) 14:17, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment If none of the cited sources use the term "six families of Berlin" (i.e. "sechs Familien von Berlin", "sechs Berliner Familien" or something like that), then delete. If any of the sources do use the term, please post links to them here. -- JN 466  14:55, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete for numerous reasons. The prod should've been left to run its course.radek (talk) 15:13, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong delete - obvious racist engaged in bogus original research and fraudulent synthesis. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  15:36, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong delete per WP:ATTACK and WP:UNDUE. In fact, I'm taking this to WP:ANI. Erpert (let's talk about it) 19:46, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, it looks like the creator has been indefinitely blocked already, but I'm still ANI-ing it. Erpert (let's talk about it) 19:47, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.