Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Skyline Pigeon


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:22, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Skyline Pigeon

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:NSONG with insufficient discussion in sources. Binksternet (talk) 19:41, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Binksternet (talk) 19:41, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:01, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Empty Sky, unless sources are found to keep this article. It was a single and is one of the best known of Elton John's songs from his pre-fame days, so it's a very plausible search term – I would not be surprised if over time it would be possible to expand this into a decent article. Richard3120 (talk) 20:44, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Empty Sky - I'm a big fan of this song but the article is largely unsupported fancruft about live performances and the supposed meaning of lyrics. The fan factoids dug up here are not necessarily compelling because similar stuff could be brainstrormed by fans of any song by a famous performer. The song has not generated much of its own reliable coverage, but its parent album has. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 03:23, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - the standard for notability is not merely the references in the current version of the article, but the references available. This song is discussed in several paragraphs of Elton: The Biography, Elton John: Fifty Years On and Captain Fantastic: The Definitive Biography of Elton John in the '70s.  It also has some material in other sources, such as The Rough Guide to Rock.  And these are just the books I was able to access online.  There is likely more material on books of John's music that I would have to check from my shelves, not to mention possible newspaper articles and websites (this or this in itself would not be significant enough coverage to meet GNG or NSONGS but they are examples of coverage additional to that in the books listed above).Rlendog (talk) 15:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem is not that there aren't sources, but that they aren't very substantial. The news clippings that you link above don't amount to anything more than "Elton played the song at a funeral". I can't speak for the other books, but Elton: The Biography has one sentence about the Empty Sky recording, one sentence about the 1973 re-recording being "superior" in the author's view, and a quote from songwriter Roger Cook about how great he thought the song was. As I said above, I do think it might be possible in time to create a decent article, but I'd be happier if I could see some decent sources first. Richard3120 (talk) 22:37, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned in my original statement, the newspaper articles by themselves "would not be significant enough coverage to meet GNG or NSONGS but they are examples of coverage additional to that in the books listed above)." Those are just supplementary.  But there are multiple books (not just Elton: The Biography) that have non-trivial coverage of the song. Rlendog (talk) 13:51, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * His Song: The Musical Journey of Elton John also has 2 paragraphs on this song. And there is some material in Tin Pan Alley: The Rise of Elton John.  And there is a review specifically of this song at Allmusic. Notability of the song is not just based on the sources that are currently in the article, but the sources that are available.  You seem to acknowledge that there are enough decent sources available beyond the current state of the article so that "over time it would be possible to expand this into a decent article."  That would meet notability. Rlendog (talk) 14:02, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There are a few books published that talk about every song an artist ever recorded, but these aren't going to contribute to the notability of just one song, as they are discussing the song in the context of a long career. Certainly "Skyline Pigeon" received some media attention because it was played at Ryan White's funeral, but that fact can be supplied to the reader in two places: the Ryan White biography and the album article Empty Sky. Binksternet (talk) 23:59, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The books I referenced do not deal with every single Elton John song (except possibly 50 Years On). But even if they did that would still contribute to the notability of those songs because very few artists have multiple books covering every song. "Discussing a song in the context of a long career" is a made up exception to GNG. Rlendog (talk) 13:49, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I also found a one paragraph review of the song in the Elton John Scrapbook, which does not do this for every Elton John song.Rlendog (talk) 18:43, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I also just posted a link to an Allmusic review of the song. Allmusic does not review every song Elton John ever recorded, even if that was a valid criteria for dismissing sources. Rlendog (talk) 14:02, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You mean this – that's a really good spot, and exactly the kind of more in-depth review that I was looking for, unlike the book coverage above, so thank you... you might have convinced me to change my vote and keep this now. Richard3120 (talk) 14:30, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep: It is discussed in the books indicated by Rlendog, including Elton John: Fifty Years On, Captain Fantastic: The Definitive Biography of Elton John in the '70s and The Rough Guide to Rock; as well as the links indicated above, including AllMusic. It's also a big hit in my country. A few artists covered the song, notably Lani Misalucha. That said, the article is good enough to pass WP:GNG. ASTIG😎  (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 15:00, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 00:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Aseleste  (t, e &#124; c, l) 05:25, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - the AllMusic review along with the mentions on the other books make this notable. Needs to be expaded of course. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:57, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.