Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Slavic dialects of Greece (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia. For now, it should not hurt to keep the article, judging by consensus here. &mdash; Joseph Fox 13:41, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Slavic dialects of Greece
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WP:CFORK mainly of Macedonian language and dialects, and also of Bulgarian language. This artificial grouping of various dialects from two different languages has absolutely no linguistic basis. The dialects discussed in the article, for the better part, are afforded scholarly linguistic analysis on their own pages (Lower Prespa dialect, Solun-Voden dialect, etc.). This is a unique case and makes as much sense as creating Slavic dialects of Italy or Slavic dialects of Hungary, etc., based on somewhat related, yet linguistically different, dialects of seperate languages. Lunch for Two (talk) 14:36, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:CFORK "A content fork is the creation of multiple separate articles all treating the same subject. Content forks that are created unintentionally result in redundant or conflicting articles and are to be avoided." Lunch for Two (talk) 14:40, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * IMHO, Merge with Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia is acceptable per discussion below. Lunch for Two (talk) 03:04, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose - this is an illogical nonsence. Jingby (talk) 14:48, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep, but consider merging with Slavic-speakers of Greek Macedonia, or at least re-shuffling material between these two in such a way that linguistic and political/historical material are divided more sensibly and don't get duplicated. I don't see this as a fork of Macedonian language; if anything, it's a sub-article of it. The special sociolinguistic situation of these dialects is the unifying factor here, much more than any structural dialectological unity (which, I agree, probably doesn't exist). Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:56, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Precisely, if the only unifying factor here is a socio-political one (However, again it is dealing with two distinct group one in Macedonia, the other in Thrace), then this would normally be insufficient to warrant a seperate article, overlapping with roughly 10 other articles where a scholarly approach is taken. Most of these factors are already discussed at Slavic-speakers of Greek Macedonia. Is extending the "Education and language" chapter on Slavic-speakers of Greek Macedonia sufficient to merge the two?
 * I dispute that it is not a fork of Macedonian language. The fact that according to the title somehow Macedonian language = Slavic dialects?, presents a pov in its own league. Lunch for Two (talk) 15:09, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 15:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 15:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

* Delete. It's an over zealous content fork and I see no merit in merging the content with Slavic-speakers of Greek Macedonia which should also be nominated for deletion. They are invented excuses to link the words "Slavic" with "Macedonia". Nipson anomhmata  (Talk) 21:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC) Striking recommendation due to the nominator's extreme POV. Nipson anomhmata  (Talk) 23:36, 15 August 2011 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:00, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep I do not see it as a fork. The article specifically says that not all of the dialects are dialects of Macedonia,but some are Bulgarian. I gather there are also dialects intermediary between those two. Apparently what language the dialects are considered to be dialects of is disputed, or at least has been called different things in different periods. The proposal to delete Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia failed, and so should this. They are both valid topics. Given the political situation with minorities in this region, I  suppose politics may have a role in the formation of these articles, but it seems equally that it has a role in the desire to remove them.  From the point of view of an nonspecialist, it seems a valid article. There are Slavic dialects spoken in Greece, they have the common property of being Slavic, so why not discuss their common aspects in an article under this title?  The way the articles is set up is clear and aids understanding.     DGG ( talk ) 12:08, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment, you are right in saying that the langauges are both Slavic however the relationship they have between each other is not simply one language continuum. Two disparate languages (to be more precise, forms of language) have been united in the article. Speakers in Greek Macedonia form an unrecognised Christian minority group speaking dialects of the Macedonian language, whereas those speaking Slavic dialects in the region of Thrace are have recognition Muslim Pomaks speaking the Smolyan dialect of Bulgarian. The two groups themselves are completely seperate, however seem to be united (I use this in the most broad sense of the word) in this article by the fact that they both speak Eastern South Slavic dialects.
 * I feel that sufficient coverage is given to the political situation of the speakers at Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia whilst the dialects themselves, accompanied with linguistic analysis covering all of the dialects at Lower Prespa dialect, Prilep-Bitola dialect, Kostur dialect, Nestram-Kostenar dialect, Solun-Voden dialect and Ser-Drama-Lagadin-Nevrokop dialect. I agree with Fut. Perf's idea about merging it with Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia, which for the most part has already occured. Lunch for Two (talk) 12:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge into Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia. I agree that there is useful material here, and the main unifying theme seems to be the way that dialects of Bulgarian and Macedonian came closer together in Greece because of various pressures.  But these two articles seem to me to really belong together as one (since the linguistic and cultural aspects are necessarily intertwined) — and, of course, there will be disputes over what name to use, and I have a problem with this article's title because "Slavic dialects" sounds like a put-down (using "dialect" as referring to a minor or second-class language).   Rich wales (talk · contribs) 05:21, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.