Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SnoBar Cocktails


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Randykitty (talk) 13:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

SnoBar Cocktails

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I deprodded this in 2012, but in hindsight I don't think the notability guideline for organisations, products and services is met. Of the three sources cited, only the CNBC article seems likely to satisfy WP:ORGIND, and I haven't been able to find any better sources. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 11:51, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink, Products,  and United States of America. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 11:51, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm finding nothing on google. Doesn't appear to meet NCORP. Valereee (talk) 15:27, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "SnöBar Frozen Cocktails are alcoholic popsicles and ice cream. Don't kid yourself on the punch these babies pack because they are potent and a popsicle has the same amount of alcohol a real cocktail. They are powerful, but more important, really delicious. The Cosmo is perfection, Mojito is excellent, and Margarita is worthy of every single drop. How lucky am I that the three popsicle flavors they make are my favorite drinks? Almost as lucky as SnöBar because I've been to my Gelson's three times to buy more they are so good. Based in Los Angeles, SnöBar is the creation of Eddie and Shannon Masjedi. Not only are there popsicles, but also ice cream! The ice cream flavors are Grasshopper, Pink Squirrel, Brandy Alexander Chocolate Chip, and Brandy Alexander."  The article notes: "We were skeptical about how alcoholic ice cream would taste, imagining it to be something slightly less enjoyable than fermented yogurt, so we tried SnoBar for you. Every flavor. Purely in the interest of thorough journalistic investigation. The results were surprising; SnoBar is actually a great flavored ice cream, with a just barely-noticeable alcohol burn."  The article notes: "SnoBar is gracing Florida with its entire line of alcoholic ice cream indulgences. This isn't a frozen daiquiri or a slushy treat with malt liquor in it. These are high-quality frozen pops and rich ice creams with actual distilled spirits as part of the ingredients. ... There's the Grasshopper (brandy with crème de menthe and crème de cacao), the Brandy Alexander (brandy and crème de cocoa with cream), the Brandy Alexander with Chocolate Chip, and the Pink Squirrel (brandy, amaretto and crème de cocoa with cream)."  The article notes: "SnoBar, a line of ice pops and ice creams, don’t just replicate the flavor of alcoholic cocktails, they actually contain a full serving of alcohol. ... It took nearly 100 attempts, but the duo perfected the ice pop and ice cream mixes and the product debuted in Arizona restaurants, bars and liquor stores in December before hitting the Las Vegas market this spring. In addition to liquor stores and bars, SnoBar is making its products available at Las Vegas clubs and resorts such as Tao, Wet Republic, Bellagio, MGM Grand and Caesar’s Palace."  The article notes: "Alcoholic ice cream is nothing new, but the boldness (and umlauted-ness) of SnoBar Cocktails is surely unprecedented. ... After debuting in "the bar scene in Arizona," the ice cream will soon make its way to Las Vegas. If the intended Girls' Night Out audience wasn't clear enough from that provenance alone, know this: the pops come in Cosmo and Margarita flavors, while the ice creams come in Grasshopper, Pink Squirrel (a grasshopper with almond liqueur instead of creme de menthe), Brandy Alexander, and Brandy Alexander Chocolate Chip."  The article notes: "Is the cocktail of the 21st Century destined to be frozen? SnoBar (and every sorority ever and possibly Grant Achatz) hope so. The company (no relation to the SnoBar froyo shop in West Hollywood) rolls out its line of boozy, cocktail-themed popsicles today at 5 p.m. — but only in Arizona."</li> <li> The article notes: "Have you seen the billboard in Phoenix advertising SnoBar? It's a new, popsicle made with alcohol, and CBS 5 News wanted to investigate."</li> <li> The article notes: "SnoBar Ice Pops ($100 for 24): These cocktail-inspired pops come in three different varieties that pay homage to classic drinks: Margarita, Mojito and Cosmopolitan. You can buy SnoBar products online, but they also serve their frosty treats at events across the country, so be on the lookout for their logo at a summer bash near you."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow SnoBar Cocktails to pass Notability (organizations and companies), which requires "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject" Cunard (talk) 07:31, 13 March 2023 (UTC) </li></ul> Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 14:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:ORGIND requires us to discount sources in which content produced by the subject is, and to instead prioritise sources displaying . None of these sources seems to clear that bar; they all read to me like paraphrases of press releases. Some are also probably too brief to be considered significant coverage (#5, #6 and #8 have less than 200 words on the subject) and at least one's very unlikely to be a reliable source (#2 again, which takes its content from GuySpeed, which advertises its areas of journalistic focus as including "girls," "sex," "hot gifs" and "cleavage"). – Arms & Hearts (talk) 12:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I kind of have to agree these seem to have been generated from press releases, and even then unless there's much more coverage than you're quoting, none seem to rise to significant coverage w/re NCORP. Which 3 do you think we should be looking at to assess notability? Valereee (talk) 18:05, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The nominator said in the nomination statement "Of the three sources cited, only the CNBC article seems likely to satisfy WP:ORGIND". is an independent review of SnoBar Cocktails. From Notability (organizations and companies): "Significant reviews are where the author has personally experienced or tested the product and describes their experiences in some depth, provides broader context, and draws comparisons with other products." The reviewer "personally experienced the product" as she writes, "SnöBar Frozen Cocktails are alcoholic popsicles and ice cream. Don't kid yourself on the punch these babies pack because they are potent and a popsicle has the same amount of alcohol a real cocktail. They are powerful, but more important, really delicious. The Cosmo is perfection, Mojito is excellent, and Margarita is worthy of every single drop." The article provides further background information about SnoBar Cocktails, "Based in Los Angeles, SnöBar is the creation of Eddie and Shannon Masjedi. Not only are there popsicles, but also ice cream! The ice cream flavors are Grasshopper, Pink Squirrel, Brandy Alexander Chocolate Chip, and Brandy Alexander." Cunard (talk) 23:00, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete The sources above all sound like regurgitated press releases. Promo. Oaktree b (talk) 15:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:08, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - The subject meets WP:GNG per the sources identified by User:Cunard, although given the nature of the brand the reviews and sources are particularly weak. Just over the line for me; I would prefer as an editorial matter to redirec to a list of similar products. Suriname0 (talk) 13:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Weak Keep While I hear (and share) concerns that reliance on press releases may have tainted the sources, User:Cunard’s thorough source analysis sufficiently demonstrates to me that Notability (organizations and companies) is satisfied by these sources, which while somewhat repetitive, several do appear to be independent reviews by the authors. Jo7hs2 (talk) 21:44, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't think the sources in the article and those put up here by Cunard are sufficient to satisfy the notability requirements. None are indepth, detailed and comprehensive reviews as required by WP:PRODUCTREV. To qualify, I'd expect to see comment on texture, aroma (if any), flavour, visual, bitterness, sweetness, product storage, calories and packaging etc.


 * Take no. 1. Ilana Angel. First 3 paragraphs all we learn is how much she loves cocktails and how she's affected by drinking them. Next 3 paragraphs. Names the owners, provides a product list and a commentary that doesn't amount to a proper review. The author has used mostly bland descriptive words throughout - "deliciousness", "really delicious", "perfection", "excellent", "worthy of every single drop", "so good", "perfect", "fun", "delicious" (again), "favorite discovery", "delicious (yet again), "fun" (again), "really great". The only area of the product she has really commented on is the alcohol effect, as "powerful" and "potent". It's not a review, but a promotional piece to attract readers to buy the product - as the author has admitted.


 * Only the Tom Rotunno, CNBC news piece passes muster as a satisfactory source, all the others are trivial and/or promotional. Insufficient significant coverage, so fails, WP:NCORP, WP:PRODUCTREV. Rupples (talk) 04:40, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment: The review from meets Notability (organizations and companies). The author "personally experienced or tested the product and describes their experiences in some depth". The review notes: "In trying this product however, I cannot image anyone would not love it. ... SnöBar Frozen Cocktails are alcoholic popsicles and ice cream. Don't kid yourself on the punch these babies pack because they are potent and a popsicle has the same amount of alcohol a real cocktail. They are powerful, but more important, really delicious. The Cosmo is perfection, Mojito is excellent, and Margarita is worthy of every single drop. ... The ice cream is a delicous desert and the popcicles are a fun way to enjoy a drink." The author's statements clearly demonstrate she has "personally experienced the product" and convey her thoughts about the different products that make up the brand. Editors critique her writing as "commentary that doesn't amount to a proper review". The author's writing style is not on par with high quality food reviews from publications like The New York Times. But her commentary and background about the company are sufficiently detailed to meet Notability (organizations and companies). She has no affiliation with the company. Her review is very positive. She writes, "I hope this company grows and does well because they have created something really great." This positive review does not detract from her being independent of the company. Cunard (talk) 06:26, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment.Notability (organizations and companies) ALSO states that the review should provide broader context, and draw comparisons with other products. "Reviews that narrowly focus on a particular product or function without broader context (e.g. review of a particular meal without description of the restaurant as a whole) do not count as significant sources.". Substitute the restaurant example with frozen cocktails and ice cream with alcohol. No comparisons made. No broader context. Therefore, does not count as a significant source. Rupples (talk) 16:51, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand the guideline to mean comparisons and comment on other companies competing products, is this not correct? Rupples (talk) 17:34, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The review does not compare SnöBar to other products, but that is just one example of how the review would be considered significant coverage. The review is significant coverage because it provides broader context by discussing how SnöBar is based in Los Angeles, was created by Eddie and Shannon Masjedi, notes that the product includes both popsicles and ice cream, notes the ice cream flavors, discusses that "each serving of all the products have a full cocktail", and notes that SnöBar is available in California, Arizona, Florida, the Carolinas, and Las Vegas. Cunard (talk) 06:36, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Impasse. There's a difference of opinion between us as to what constitutes significant, indepth coverage per the guideline. That's fine, guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Rupples (talk) 19:39, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't agree that the reviews linked above are enough significant coverage of the company to reach WP:NCORP. Ongoing coverage is thin. We don't lose anything by deleting this stub. -- asilvering (talk) 02:49, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Stubs are explicitly welcome and marked as serving Wikipedia's encyclopaedic purpose. Deleting text when it merits a place in Wikipedia is equivalent to losing information. -The Gnome (talk) 08:20, 29 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep quite clearly per sources cited above by Cunard, which are more than enough for the subject to possess strong, independent notability. The onus of demonstrating that the sources cited are not reliable, numerous, or adequate falls on those dismissing them. We only need to add the umlauts in the title. -The Gnome (talk) 08:20, 29 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.