Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Snoopy's siblings


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The topic clearly does not deserve an independent article, but participants are split on an appropriate target. Will relist at RfD to make that determination. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:48, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Snoopy's siblings

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Per Articles for deletion/List of minor characters in Peanuts (2nd nomination), this is a spin-off of sorts, biographing several of the canine minor characters in Peanuts. This is primary-sourced WP:ALLPLOT with little real-world significance of the dogs Olaf, Andy etc. So this belongs in the Peanuts Wikia or can be mentioned on Snoopy's page. Geschichte (talk) 10:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  10:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  10:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  10:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎</b>) 13:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge with List of Peanuts characters: Unnecessary fork. Significantly trim and merge only sourced content.  <span style="font-family:Courier New, Courier, monospace;">  // Timothy ::  talk  11:50, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Wikia is a commercial rival for selling advertising and we're not here to promote that as the nomination suggests. Peanuts, Snoopy and his siblings is naturally a sprawling topic for which we would expect some splitting but deletion is not an appropriate measure per WP:ATD, "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page."  The current content seems fine but if you want some real-world input too then see here for a recent example. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:23, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment- I think we can do without accusing the nominator of shilling for Wikia. This misbehavior was the subject of an ANI thread not so long ago. Pinging, who offered to take appropriate action if it re-occurred. <b style="color: Maroon;">Reyk</b> <b style="color: Blue;">YO!</b> 14:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * can you clarify whether you're accusing Geschichte of shilling for Wikia or trying to promote that website? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:26, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The nomination says "So this belongs in the Peanuts Wikia". If the nomination introduces such a proposition, it seems quite appropriate to respond to it.  My point is that this is not a valid reason to delete our page.  For avoidance of doubt, I am not accusing the nominator of anything improper.  I am not familiar with the editor Geschichte and do not doubt their good faith. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:08, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Snoopy, which would probably be the better place to cover them than the general Peanuts Characters list.  The vast majority of the information currently in this article is plot information that is either unsourced or using primary sources.  The only one of the litter aside from Snoopy himself that has any kind of coverage is Spike (even the one source Andrew linked above is only talking about Spike, not the rest of them), and even then, there is no coverage that goes in-depth on him that could justify a separate article.  When the vast amounts of unsourced plot information, which is 90 percent of the article, is cut out, the information on Snoopy's siblings could easily be covered on his own page.  Rorshacma (talk) 17:10, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Snoopy per Rorshacma. The nom is frankly not wrong in that it's Wikia material. Clearly fails WP:GNG - I've never even heard of these characters, which is a far cry from Snoopy himself. For good reason - some of them aren't even canon.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 17:48, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to !vote due to my having large conflicts of interest with regards to Snoopy. I can say, however, that there are at least some sources out there that cover the siblings in general (including my own book, The Snoopy Treasures, which only for giving it some RS weight I'll note is a Benjamin Franklin Award winner - that's the Independent Book Publishers Association award.) Spike has a significant place within the strip itself during the 1980s and 1990s, and Belle, while having a surprisingly minor role in the strip itself, has a notable place in larger culture, as there have been a series of fashion exhibitions in which major designers designed outfits for her and Snoopy. Here is InStyle covering the New York Fashion Week display in 2017, Here's 2014 coverage in Women's Wear Daily noting that these shows go back to 1984, including displays at The Louvre and Los Angeles's Natural History Museum. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:35, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: I've added many references to the article, and trimmed the poor quality writing. Sources include: What Cartooning Really Is: The Major Interviews with Charles M. Schulz (2020), Charles M. Schulz: Conversations (2012), The Art and Making of Peanuts Animation: Celebrating Fifty Years of Television Specials (2012), and The Complete Peanuts Family Album (2017), all providing real-world information on production and reception of the characters (including two surprisingly negative quotes by Schulz on his own creations). I've also got a 1980 article from the Honolulu Advertiser on the introduction of Belle plush, a 1988 article from the Cincinnati Enquirer about a special featuring Spike, and a couple articles about the 1990 Snoopy/Belle fashion exhibition, including this article from the Wilmington News-Journal. I believe that together, these demonstrate notability for the characters. — Toughpigs (talk) 02:05, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Still, the best of the lost seems to be a WP:INTERVIEW in which this group of characters is mentioned in passing. That's scratching the barrel... --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:09, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge per Rorshacma. The coverage here doesn't really address the topic in direct detail as required by the WP:GNG. But there is enough to be worth WP:PRESERVEing, and the main character list is still well under anything that would require multiple articles or lists. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:40, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect - This topic can easily be housed in its entirety in a paragraph in the character list. There is nothing to establish independent notability at this time. TTN (talk) 03:58, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List_of_Peanuts_characters: Nothing here justifies having a stand alone article, coverage is trivial. Fails WP:NFICTION/GNG. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Snoopy. The information easily fits there and is relevant.   D r e a m Focus  14:00, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep for reasons cited by user:Andrew Davidson and User:Toughpigs Meets WP:GNG. WP:Not paper.  WP:Preserve.  Not the article or references it was when this AFD started. WP:HEY. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 16:45, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: With the sourced content that I've added, merging with List of Peanuts characters would not work. The entries on that list page are two to three sentences. I think that the two interview quotes from Schulz are good quality content; they would never fit in that chart. It would be possible to merge with the Snoopy article, although the sourced content would be a pretty big chunk of that page. Part of the problem there is that the Snoopy article is terribly undeveloped, and needs to be much richer :) — now that I've seen that, I plan to work on building up the Snoopy page with more references. — Toughpigs (talk) 17:01, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Just toss the merchandise info and development info into Peanuts. "There is merchandise on the character" isn't particularly relevant in the scope of an individual character. The development of the comic is a better place to discuss the addition of characters if the individual characters lack anything worthwhile. The characters themselves just need two sentences of context. TTN (talk) 18:13, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You're essentially saying we should toss out all the sourced content, which is several paragraphs. I don't think that's how we're supposed to consider sourced content in an AfD. — Toughpigs (talk) 18:32, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * "Toss" as in place into the parent franchise article, not toss as in throw away. The information is relevant to the development of the comic/franchise, but you have mostly primary development info as the core of the content and some trivial mentions based on merchandise. There's nothing that requires an in-depth article on the particulars of the characters' various appearances. The context they require is a brief summary on the character list. TTN (talk) 18:40, 19 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment I would also note the comment from User:NatGertler and endorse what he said, even though he chose not to !vote. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:06, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Snoopy. Azuredivay (talk) 07:49, 20 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.