Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Socialist Party (Italy, 2007–08)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. By default I keep the article, and also per WP:BOLD I will move it, everybody is welcome to revert the move. I do not see any consensus for the redirects at the moment.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:13, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Socialist Party (Italy, 2007–08)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:GNG, WP:ORGDEPTH, and WP:NGO. The two citations from Corriere della Sera only name someone who claims to be secretary of said party and his belief that said party is useful, while others disagree. Chris Troutman ( talk ) 19:42, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Chris troutman and I thank him. The two articles concern the "Socialist Costituent Assembly" of the Italian Socialist Party (2007) and they don't talk about a Socialist Party founded by De Michelis--Maremmano (talk) 13:08, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. I perfectly understand that the article needs more sources and, probably, a different name ("2007–08" might be inconsistent*), but the party existed. In 2007 the New Italian Socialist Party (NPSI) split over its participation in the "Socialist Constituent Assembly" (CS), which led in 2007–2008 to the formation of the Socialist Party (PS), now Italian Socialist Party (PSI). The faction led by De Michelis and Del Bue, who lost to Caldoro's in an internal struggle, initially continued to use the NPSI banner, until it decided to adpot the name "Socialist Party", coherently with the name of the party which would emerge from the CS, albeit with a different symbol. As such the "Socialist Party–De Michelis" is cited in the article on the PS/PSI. --Checco (talk) 09:23, 28 April 2014 (UTC) *=The founding congress of the PS/PSI was held in July 2008, thus the formal merger of PS–De Michelis into the PS/PSI happened at that point, hence "–08".


 * Ps: My good faith is vindicated by some comments from it:Discussione:Nuovo Partito Socialista Italiano. For those who understand Italian, please read especially:
 * Utente:Bronzino, 16 July 2007: Per quanto abbia provato a sviscerare la questione, non sono riuscito a capire se il Nuovo Psi legittimo sia quello di Del Bue o quello di Caldoro. Il primo continua a usare nuovopsi.com, il secondo ha creato il sito partitosocialista.org. Cosa strana, poi, nessuno finora ha voluto portare l'altro in tribunale per chiarire la questione, sicché a tutt'oggi ci sono 2 Npsi. [...]
 * Utente:87.9.164.50, 6 October 2007: Il nome Partito Socialista Nuovo PSI rimane a Caldoro di contro il simbolo và a De Michelis il cui gruppo si chiama Partito socialista PS. 
 * Utente:Whit&Black, 28 August 2008: Segnalo che il "Partito Socialista Nuovo PSI" nato nel 2001 ed il "Nuovo PSI" di Caldoro sono soggetti diversi. Nel 2007 il "Partito Socialista Nuovo PSI" era diviso in due sulla decisione di aderire alla "Costituente Socialista" di Boselli e si crearono forti tensioni, fino ad arrivare alla celebrazione di due congressi con l'elezione di ben due segretari. La soluzione fu la divisione del partito: la denominazione "Partito Socialista" rimase a Del Bue e De Michelis, che aderirono alla "Costituente'"; la denominazione "Nuovo PSI" rimase a Caldoro e Barani, che aderirono al PdL. Ciò è provato dal fatto che sul sito nel "Nuovo PSI" di Caldoro si fa riferimento al partito solo ed esclusivamente come "Nuovo PSI"; lo statuto del "Nuovo PSI" di Caldoro è stato approvato nel 2007, proprio la data della scissione in due; nel 2009 l'Ufficio elettorale centrale nazionale ha affermato che il "Nuovo PSI" di Caldoro non è lo stesso partito del 2004, come poi confermato dal TAR del Lazio. [...]
 * Please also note that the www.nuovopsi.com was given back by De Michelis & Co. to the current NPSI (still led by Caldoro) a few years later.
 * I'm sure about what I have been saying, but I will look for sources. --Checco (talk) 09:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I found the source that settles things once and for all! The NPSI's faction led by De Michelis was active as a separate party from the official NPSI led by Caldoro and was known as "Socialist Party". I will edit the article according to the source (even though I'm not sure about the dates given). For clarity, the article should be moved to "Socialist Party (De Michelis)". This AfD should be closed and the article kept. --Checco (talk) 10:12, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It settles nothing. First, you haven't disproven my charge about notability. Second, GoogleTranslate tells me that you're participating in this same argument in itwiki, where there is also disagreement. If the Italian-language Wikipedians don't agree on the sourcing, why would we? One book alone (which might not even be independent) doesn't make out notability. It sounds like the subject could be mentioned in a section of the Italian Socialist Party article but it doesn't merit its own article.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 10:39, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It settles everything. The "Socialist Party" led by De Michelis was a real party and its notablity is beyond any doubt (two MEPs!).
 * Regarding it.Wiki, virtually everyone knows that it is hardly a reliable Wiki and that they have a totally different policy on notability (just think that they are currently discussing over the deletions of The Other Europe and European Choice, and several users support them). However, there is no active disussion in it.Wiki on our issue (it was settled once ago: two parties), I'm not taking part to any discussion there and I seldom contribute there because I disagree with it.Wiki's policies and customs. --Checco (talk) 11:01, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. While there might not be the optimum amount of sources, we have to be pragmatic and accept that there will not be an avalanche of sources about short-lived minor political parties.--Autospark (talk) 22:05, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. It.Wiki is absurdly restrictive but en.Wiki is extremely elastic. I admit that I didn't know the information linked by Checco and that the source is very interesting. But there are some problems: the names "Socialist Party (2007-08)" and "Socialist Party (De Michelis)" are wrong, the source says that the "party" was led by Mauro Del Bue. The perspective of this party was only to join itself into Socialist Party. I think that these informations should be reported in the page of New PSI.--Maremmano (talk) 22:33, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Del Bue was the party's secretary, De Michelis was the party's president and practical leader. --Checco (talk) 07:30, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Why would those two names be "wrong"? The party was dissolved in 2008 and its main leader was De Michelis. --Checco (talk) 07:38, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The date of dissolution (2008) is supposed. And did two socialist parties exist in the period 2007-08?--Maremmano (talk) 22:59, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The PS–De Michelis was merged into the current PS during the party's founding congress in July 2008. Before that, waiting for the formal birth of the new party, De Michelis' followers had organized themselves in the party this article is about. --Checco (talk) 07:45, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 05:02, 4 May 2014 (UTC)


 * keep and deal with ths content problems on the talk page. We normally do cover splinter groups of this sort.  DGG ( talk ) 18:29, 4 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. If the page should remain, however the redirects Socialist Party (Italy, 2007–08) and Socialist Party (Italy, 2007-2008) should be deletd, the date of dissolution is not at all demonstrated, the Italian Socialist Party (2007) was born in 2007--Maremmano (talk) 19:35, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 21:40, 11 May 2014 (UTC)



I propose to close the debate moving the page to Socialist Party (De Michelis) and deleting the redirects Socialist Party (Italy, 2007–08) and Socialist Party (Italy, 2007–2008) because are wrong, the date of dissolution has not been proved by any source, it is an original research. Okay?--Maremmano (talk) 22:11, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I disagree with your arguments, but I agree with the proposed move. Would you take care of redirects? --Checco (talk) 10:21, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you refer to the deletion of the redirects? --Maremmano (talk) 22:40, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the fix of all the links directed to the article. I also support the deletion of those redirects, but are you going to fix all those broken links? Many thanks, --Checco (talk) 07:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC) @Admins: Please close this discussion and move the article.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.